11:48 am
Last night's GA livetweets were somewhat hampered by a lack of livestream. We're gonna LT the last proposal now from recorded audio. #nycga
11:48 am
RT @aaronbornstein: @LibertySqGA correction: The Bill Ayers convo is at Thurs Feb 9th, 7pm at 20 Cooper Sq, 5th Floor.
11:48 am
RT @aaronbornstein: @LibertySqGA Also, the first of the ThinkTank series on defining (non)violence and diversity of tactics will be Mond ...
11:49 am
So, the proposal at hand is the proposal to assist with the funding of Ellis Roberts' commissary, to tune of $220/month. #nycga #ows
11:49 am
Daryl's PoI: "There are $92,000 dollars in the bail fund." Earlier, Camille pointed out that the fund was to be used only for bail. #nycga
11:50 am
CQ: "This is not necessarily an OWS action he was arrested at. Are we then opening a door that anyone who's arrested for anything…" #nycga
11:50 am
Cont'd: "…who identifies with the movement, we're obligated to be in solidarity with him?" A: "I hear that concern; that night…" #nycga
11:51 am
Cont'd: "…was Ellis' birthday, and.. we found out about that event because we went to GA. We thought it was an #OWS event." #nycga #ows
11:51 am
CQ: "But my question is, does the language -- is there any limit?" A: "The language is very clear; it says our OWS comrades." #nycga #ows
11:52 am
A cont'd: "And I definitely think we know who's part of #OWS and who's active, and I think each circumstance will have unique aspects…"
11:53 am
Cont'd: "…but if they are part of #OWS, people'll be there to say that." CQ: "So but if I get arrested for selling pot…?" Camille has a PoI.
11:54 am
Camille's PoI: "Another PoI from Jail Support: the deal w/ our representation from the NLG and whether or not people are from #OWS…" #nycga
11:55 am
Cont'd: "The NLG won't represent you if you're arrested selling pot. But if you're arrested for protest activities they'll represent you."
11:56 am
Camille says that Ellis is being represented by the NLG, and this is a strong rule of thumb. Tony: "It was an #Occupy action." #nycga
11:57 am
Tony: "If we decide we're not going to honor any other #occupy actions, fine. #2, I was at a GA where we consensed we'd bail out any OWSer."
11:57 am
Tony cont'd: "Someone brought up the same question about other crimes and they were twinkled to hell down." #nycga #ows
11:58 am
Camille: "Precedent was set for this with the Oakland bail fund." Sean is next on stack with a CQ. "Before we discuss the specifics of.."
11:59 am
Cont'd: "..this case, can we decide what we should be doing, and then figure out if this case applies? Decide how we should be doing it..."
11:59 am
Cont'd: "…and then ask the difficult question about whether it should apply here." Camille just answered that, he's told. #nycga #ows
12:00 pm
.@CMarieDaniel: "To be clear, this would come from the bail fund?" A: "It comes from where it comes from." Pressed further: "Yes." #nycga
12:00 pm
Stairs closing stack. Daryl points out that a member of #OWS is more likely to get arrested to begin with, and the "how is it?" and "what.."
12:01 pm
Cont'd: "…was it for?" are conversations we didn't get to have here. Advocates for more disclosure and case-by-case discussion. #nycga #ows
12:03 pm
A: "Normally #OWS bails folks out; this is different b/c he's in Riker's and needs commissary. So the ? is does that support end in jail?"
12:04 pm
[We're currently LTing the last part of last night's GA, regarding proposal to give Ellis Roberts $ for Riker's commissary. -Ed.] #nycga
12:05 pm
A cont'd: "I certainly hope that's not the case. So what I'm asking for is #OWS to support our comrades if they end up in Riker's." #nycga
12:05 pm
Cont'd: "And now there's one there, and he's been left alone with zero in his commissary since the 31st." #nycga #ows
12:05 pm
PoI: "In Riker's island, they don't feed you very much." Says they often lock you without food for weeks on end. Commissary very important.
12:06 pm
Lauren's CQ: "As a matter of process, I wonder if this is a convo we need to be having in the Financial decisionmaking body, Spokescouncil."
12:07 pm
Lauren suggests that GA should weigh in on this now, but proposer says she put it up for both bodies and facilitation directed it to GA.
12:07 pm
Daryl says he feels that it's a movement decision, not just specifically a financial thing. "This is clearly an extra-budgetary issue…"
12:08 pm
Cont'd: "…& the $'s already been allocated." Stairs wants to confer w/ other facilitators to make sure the proposal's in order. #nycga #ows
12:09 pm
PoI is raised that it was directed to GA because it's being brought by an individual (Spokes is a working-group centric body.) #nycga #ows
12:10 pm
PoI cont'd: "If the GA doesn't approve this the proposer can try to get support from their working group and bring it to Spokes." #nycga
12:10 pm
Stairs decides to speak with members of Facilitation before proceeding. The GA will now go into recess for a minute. #nycga #ows
12:36 pm
OK, #NYCGA is "back in session" (this is last night's conclusion). Stairs took a break to decide whether the proposal to extend the… #nycga
12:36 pm
Cont'd: …bail fund to Ellis Roberts' commissary at Riker's island, is something GA can hear or needs to go to Spokes. #nycga #ows
12:37 pm
Stairs says it was determined that since this relates to bail fund, not overall finances, it should go to GA. Anthony is uncomfortable…
12:38 pm
…but he's willing to go forward. PoI: "The bail proposal was passed by this body. The Spokes cannot modify a proposal the GA passed."#nycga
12:38 pm
Stairs temp-checks having a 5 minute convo. Daryl "point of processes" and suggests we don't need that, should go forward. #nycga #ows
12:39 pm
Anthony clarifies he's willing to go forward, but wants the GA to decide for itself. He temp-checks continuing -- looks good. #nycga #ows
12:40 pm
Two more people are on stack for clarifying questions. Jack's CQ: "We still don't know how many ppl have cases pending…" #nycga #ows
12:40 pm
Cont'd: "…and if we did, we should also know what total amount of bail was spent. And also an estimate of future funds." #nycga #ows
12:41 pm
Cont'd: "And it would be good to know what money we expect back, could use that $ to help people like Ellis." #nycga #ows
12:41 pm
Camille says that Jail Support and Finance are working on just such a timeline. "That money, no matter if it was used for bail…" #nycga
12:42 pm
Cont'd: "…before the fund was made, it would go back into the bail fund." Redirecting it would, she says, be up to Spokescouncil. #nycga
12:43 pm
Sage's CQ.. sounds like he forgot he was on stack. "We discussed it in the breakout group and I feel that if properly expressed this…"
12:43 pm
Cont'd: "…could easily pass tonight. There were clarifying questions, we have clarity. I think we all want this passed and for Ellis to…"
12:44 pm
Cont'd: "…be supported while he's in jail." Joanne's CQ is: they say "he's not even getting food or water; how can this be?" #nycga #ows
12:44 pm
Cont'd: "That really cannot be, that's not reasonable." OK, that's it for CQ stack. Now opening stack for concerns and friendly amendments.
12:45 pm
First friendly amendment: "#OWS would not pay for a person until after the 7th day." Also, "if convicted for a crime that has nothing to.."
12:45 pm
Cont'd: "…do with #OWS actions, #OWS would end the funding." Proposer accepts both. #nycga #ows
12:45 pm
Lauren's concern: "My concern is that this proposal- it's hard for us to make this decision because it feels like two decisions at once."
12:46 pm
Lauren cont'd: "One question is, do we support someone who is in jail?" Suggests we answer that, and then address specific case. #nycga
12:47 pm
Lauren: "It would be better to set a general precedent, than to have one person setting the precedent. Does that make sense?" Yes, ppl say.
12:48 pm
Tony suggests that "the language is very general. It applies to all of us." Lauren: "I think that's true, but not that everyone's hearing...
12:48 pm
Cont'd: "…the general language." Suggests we change the language a little bit to make more clear we're talking about larger precedent.#nycga
12:49 pm
A: "The bottom line of the proposal was a proposal that #OWS provide legal and commissary funds for any detained #OWSers." #nycga #ows
12:51 pm
Cont'd: "And specifically the commissary fund was $220/month." $7.33/day. "That's what the proposal is for." #nycga #ows
12:52 pm
Lauren says maybe she was confused because all of the CQs were about Ellis, and just needed it restated. #nycga #ows
12:52 pm
Next C: "I just want to make sure that any decisions that are made have to be applied consistently and equally." #nycga #ows
12:53 pm
Cont'd: "Also, this movement is supposed to be non-hierarchical." Notes that presentation "tried to clarify he was a bona-fide member.."
12:54 pm
Cont'd: "…but in a way, you know, 1st-day occupier -- it started feeling a bit like status and hierarchy. And I know it's just…" #nycga
12:54 pm
Cont'd: "…inadvertent, and that you were trying to state he is an active member, but I just think we should watch that." #nycga #ows
12:55 pm
A: "The reason I stated that was to highlight the duration of commitment to this movement. B/c honestly, I saw a lack of care…" #nycga
12:55 pm
Cont'd: "..coming from this movement that killed me. You know, people were saying, how is Ellis related to #OWS? And I couldn't believe it."
12:56 pm
C again: "It's just a concern" -- again, wants to make sure we're careful about status & hierarchy. "We're lucky it's 1 person, what if 25?"
12:57 pm
Last concern on stack. "My question/concern/possible friendly amendment: I'm hearing a lot of concern about setting precedent without.."
12:57 pm
Cont'd: "..maybe really having thought it through carefully." Notes it clashes with proposers' goals to get Ellis funded now. #nycga #ows
12:59 pm
Cont'd: "So, I'm wondering if it might be possible to make a proposal to fund Ellis for a month at least while this gets figured out."#nycga
12:59 pm
A: "I'm giving the down-fingers for that. This is not just for Ellis because it could be any of us. #OWS is now considered low-level..."
12:59 pm
Cont'd: "..terrorism. Any of us could be in Riker's." Want to take care of comrades both if free and if detained. #nycga #ows
13:00 pm
Amender again restates it was simply a way to maybe ensure the proposal passes. Proposer declines the amendment. #nycga #ows
13:01 pm
That's it for concerns; the proposer will now restate the proposal. "This proposal is for #OWS to provide legal support and $7.33/day..."
13:01 pm
Cont'd: "…commissary for detained #OWSers. That's $220/month." FAs: "Commissary would end if #OWS was convicted of non-#OWS charge…"
13:02 pm
Cont'd: "…and that it doesn't start until 7 days in detention, and also that the money will come from the bail fund." #nycga #ows
13:02 pm
Anthony: "So at this pt in time, I'd like to ask the GA how it feels about going forward with the consensus process on this?" Looks good.
13:03 pm
Anthony asks for standasides. "That's when you don't feel this should go forth, but not something" that's a moral, ethical, safety concern.
13:03 pm
No standasides. Someone CQ: "If he's found guilty, would we still be paying budget amount for his food?" Notes will determine block. #nycga
13:04 pm
Sean: "I'll heavily not block, as long as it terminates at the acceptance of a guilty verdict." Proposer accepts the amendment. #nycga #OWS
13:05 pm
Proposer reconsiders, asks for a temperature check on "whether we should cease commissary funds if found guilty" of crime. #nycga #ows
13:06 pm
Stairs: "I'm seeing a lot of down-twinkles." So, the proposer actually doesn't accept that friendly amendment. #nycga #ows
13:07 pm
So, redoing consensus: two standasides. Now will ask for blocks… #nycga #ows
13:07 pm
Stairs: "A block represents a moral, ethical, or safety concern. And Fuck Monsanto." There's one block. #nycga #ows
13:08 pm
Block: "I don't know for how long this is supposed to go; don't know enough about case in general." Thinks we should decide commissary...
13:08 pm
Cont'd: …in general before determining if this one person gets it "Because, like, if someone does 10 years, do we pay commissary?" #nycga
13:09 pm
Stairs clarifies this is not about the individual but is about people detained long-term in general. "This will be setting a precedent."
13:09 pm
Block: "I still have a block because I don't know for how long it's going to be. It seems very different from bail." #nycga #ows
13:09 pm
Stairs asks if there's a friendly amendment to resolve block. Blocker suggests setting a short period of time as limit. #nycga #ows
13:10 pm
Stairs suggests he propose a set time "rather than stating it vaguely." Blocker notes she rejected Sean's amndment so doubts can compromise.
13:11 pm
So, the block stands. Stairs asks proposer if she wants to move to a 9/10ths majority vote, our fallback when consensus fails. #nycga #ows
13:13 pm
Modified consensus: those for proposal? 16 for. How many against? 1. "YAY!" someone yells. Stairs: "This passes by modified consensus."
13:13 pm
"Free Ellis!" Anthony: "Fuck Monsanto! This was the last proposal that we had." Opening stack for announcements. #nycga #ows
13:15 pm
Sage: "I'm heading the Facilitation team for #SC tmrw. If any1 is of a religious persuasion, feels like praying for me, that's appreciated."
13:15 pm
Anthony closes with a reminder that he's agreed to take responsibility if that last proposal ends up being considered a breach of process.
13:16 pm
Anthony: "I'm doing this on principle, b/c when I facilitate, I'm representing the process." #nycga #ows
13:17 pm
Stairs (Anthony): "& THE [2/7/12] GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS NOW DONE! FUCK MONSANTO!" "Fuck Monsanto!" [Thx fam. Seeya tonight. -Ed.] #nycga #ows
19:20 pm
Hey fam! #NYCSC is starting right noooowwwww! Follow: here, @LibertySqGA2, @LibertySqGA3, & @LibertySqGA4 for livetweets/overflow. #nycsc
19:20 pm
First, Archives report back. Trying to set up a candlelight vigil Friday at 6:30 outside Syrian consulate. It'll go til Saturday AM. #nycsc
19:21 pm
SIS: "We've lost access to the building," they're having a meeting about it. "We probably won't lose access to the space." #nycsc #ows
19:21 pm
DA: "We're building up to the GS; two General Strike meetings will be Wednesday and Saturday." Other DA mtgs, Tues 5:30-8, / Sun 12-6 #nycsc
19:22 pm
Jeff's announcement: "Metrocards are here this evening." CQ: "How long will you be here?" Jeff: "End of Spokes, or end of Metrocards."#nycsc
19:22 pm
RT @whimgrrl: Nxt #Occupy Glbal Rdtable:11amPST/7pmGMT Feb9 on Mumble All welcome! Setup http://t.co/2hTHOy2H RT @laurenriot @LibertySqG ...
19:23 pm
We're taking a quick break so folks can get their Metrocards. #nycsc #ows
19:50 pm
OK, we're coming back. @Buddhagem is telling us about his idea to make a short video about the process we use. #nycsc #ows
19:50 pm
They're filming with three different cameras to show the process - asking folks who are uncomfortable being filmed to raise hands. #nycsc
19:51 pm
Sage: "Just to be inclusive to the camera people, to do what we're doing, instead of being exclusive, Dave has his camera pointed in…"#nycsc
19:51 pm
Cont'd: "…this direction; you can easily sit over here and avoid being filmed." #nycsc #ows
19:51 pm
Filmer: "I'm making a long-format documentary, and my understanding now is everyone w/ exception of this one person is OK w/ it." Yup!#nycsc
19:52 pm
The film is going to be about more than the spectacle, she says, and will highlight our process. Might be on PBS! [Like! -Ed.] #nycsc #ows
19:54 pm
Archives has one more announcement. "I thought it would be a good idea to gather some books together for Ellis." Can get 4 books at a time.
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "Maybe Saturday, if anyone is coming to Occupy Town Square Saturday, you can bring a book or two and we can send them off." #nycsc
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "They have to be paperback books. Not hardcover." #nycsc #ows
19:55 pm
Class War is working on an action for March 31st in Solidarity w/ Europe! They're networking with other groups here. #nycsc #ows
19:56 pm
Also, they're starting a chapter of Class War WG on the West coast. "And Fuck Monsanto!" Quickly becoming Anthony's catchphrase. #nycsc #ows
19:57 pm
Joseph tells us that Ellis is being held at Riker's until they extradite him to Pennsylvania. He asks for Legal to get on the case… #nycsc
19:58 pm
Cont'd: …but I think they are already. Sage holds up the signup sheet for Spokes, who are the ppl empowered to speak frm each working group.
19:58 pm
Coming to tonite's agenda. Sage: "There's a budget proposal. Besides that proposal, are there any proposals tht need to be on agenda?"#nycsc
19:59 pm
No immediate takers. Hey, it's @raviahmad, presenting this proposal! "This is a budget proposal in 2 parts; been worked on by a bunch of…"
19:59 pm
Cont'd: "…groups, we're hoping to take it to more groups in the coming days to make sure it's something the community really believes in."
20:00 pm
Here's the proposal: "A Proposal To Create a Budget Process for Spokescouncil." It's from Acccounting. Christine and Ravi proposing. #nycsc
20:01 pm
Ravi: "If the full proposal is passed, there will be no petty cash." Groups need to establish standing budget. #nycsc #ows
20:01 pm
Ravi: "On Monday, we'll seek consensus on building an #OWS-wide budget process where working groups propose recurring and one-time budgets."
20:02 pm
Ravi: "We believe by building a common process & reporting requirements, we'll provide the transparency & efficiency this mvment deserves."
20:04 pm
The first three parts of the proposal we'll discuss tonight are: to formally consent that all WGs that follow the terms of the InfoHub...
20:04 pm
Cont'd: …proposal regarding working group requirements are able to participate in Spokescouncil… #nycsc #ows
20:05 pm
Cont'd: …that Spokescouncil is the venue for OWS working groups to check each other's direct budgetary access to the general fund…#nycsc
20:05 pm
Cont'd: …and third, to agree to the abolition of the petty cash system by which working groups had received $100/day. #nycsc #ows
20:15 pm
CQ, Facilitation: "We're wondering if you can speak briefly to reason behind abolishing the daily petty cash." #nycsc #ows
20:16 pm
A: "Yes. On average, when we had petty cash, we were spending $3-5k a day in petty cash. Most of it was going to personal food…" #nycsc
20:16 pm
Cont'd: "…and transportation, even tho we had Metrocards and Kitchen, ppl found it easier just to spend it on transportation and food."
20:17 pm
Cont'd: "We'd try to say that if you send it on food, it has to be your whole group -- ppl'd just consense to take their whole group out."
20:17 pm
Cont'd: "We have significantly less than $200k right now," so it's untenable. "Spending freeze came together out of need for a budget."
20:17 pm
Cont'd: "You can put discretionary funding in your budget, but having one person come get it.." "It wasn't great." #nycsc #ows
20:17 pm
Town Planning: "I just wanted to note that the first thing (InfoHub proposal rule), we already consensed on." It's redundant. #nycsc #ows
20:18 pm
Cont'd: "Also, is petty cash a GA thing?" A: "It was essentially made up way back in the park; we consensed that GA needs to approve…"
20:18 pm
Cont'd: "…everything over $100, which ppl took to mean under $100 didn't need GA approval." Got way out of control. #nycsc #ows
20:18 pm
TP: "I just wanted to make sure we're saying, kill it entirely." A: "Yes. Kill it dead." #nycsc #ows
20:18 pm
CQ, Minutes: "Did this come from the financial assembly?" A: "Sort of. First mtg was well-attended, after that no one came." #nycsc #ows
20:19 pm
CQ: "What groups is this prop coming from?" A: "Accounting, Info, OWS Works, Sustainability." Were more involved but aren't here to sponsor.
20:19 pm
CQ, TechOps: "Question about what you mean by 'checking on each other' in terms of budget- it says 2 or 4 weeks to…" #nycsc #ows
20:20 pm
A, @raviahmad: "That's in the second part of the proposal. Honestly, we couldn't decide on length of time. Point is that everyone…" #nycsc
20:20 pm
Cont'd: "…who has a budget has to bring it back to Spokes and be re-consensed upon." Depends on how many groups go through it. #nycsc #ows
20:20 pm
Cont'd: "If it was 10 groups, we could do it every 2 weeks. If it's 25, could take a lot of time and maybe we want to do it once a month."
20:20 pm
TechOps wants a little elaboration about how they see the process going forward. A: "Monday, Medics reported back about their budget…"#nycsc
20:21 pm
Cont'd: "…and it was OK, but a little rough, people were asking weird questions, why are you going to DC, etc." So the idea with this...
20:21 pm
Cont'd: …is to establish a standard structure and process for this type of reporting and to make it work better. #nycsc #ows
20:21 pm
Also, Christine from Accounting notes that they get a lot of flak and don't want to be the ppl to hold folks accountable. Would rather...
20:22 pm
Cont'd: …ppl "report back on their budgets to the whole community" rather than leaning on Accounting for oversight. #nycsc #ows
20:22 pm
Vision and Goals' CQ: "I was wondering, for, like, travel, transportation, are we still eligible for that?" A: "If you guys need it, put..."
20:23 pm
Cont'd: "…it in your budget." Community will need to consense on the item based on the reasoning and purpose. #nycsc #ows
20:23 pm
They also ask how to pay back or turn in receipts, email accounting@nycga.net and they'll set up a time. #nycsc #ows
20:24 pm
V&G also: "Just quickly, there were some names and numbers on some spreadsheet?" Yeah they'll talk about that later. #nycsc #ows
20:24 pm
OccupyFarms' CQ: "First, why is the financial information delayed until Monday?" A: "We just didn't have time to get it all together."#nycsc
20:25 pm
CQ, part 2: "Given that Spokes are consensed on by working group, why is Spokes able to take over control of GA money?" #nycsc #ows
20:25 pm
A: "I think the 1st issue is that Spokes was made operational Jan 2. But in the Spokes proposal, that's the function of the Spokescouncil."
20:26 pm
Cont'd: "So, that's what we're doing, to make it more clear that operational groups in particular need to come to Spokes for $." #nycsc #ows
20:34 pm
Working groups are now conferring on concerns. We're about to open stack for concerns on this proposal. #nycsc #ows
20:38 pm
Before concerns, the proposers want to address some things they heard in the working group discussion. #nycsc #ows
20:39 pm
First one is, yes, the Spokescouncil already approved the first item in this proposal, so that's redundant. #nycsc #ows
20:40 pm
Carrie from Minute asks about the word "operational" being left out of the proposal. A: Ops groups get budgets, but SC can… #nycsc
20:40 pm
Cont'd: …be a place for all working group accountability for money, whether "operational" or not. #nycsc #ows
20:43 pm
Next concern is the process of ratifying this to the GA. A: "Our understanding is the spending freeze required a budget to come to GA…"
20:44 pm
Cont'd: "…to end the spending freeze." It isn't to gt approval, it's to show GA "hey, we made a budget, the freeze is over now right?"#nycsc
20:44 pm
Cont'd: "Part of the reason we're bringing this proposal is because nobody else has." #nycsc #ows
20:44 pm
CQ: "So you're saying the GA doesn't have to consense on the budget?" A: "I think we need to look at minutes, but we're proposing that…"
20:45 pm
Cont'd :"…whatever minutes says we have to take to the GA, let's take it to the GA." That part of the proposal is for Monday anyway. #nycsc
20:45 pm
CQ: "Is it really in the best interest of Spokes to take time to go through budgeting for each WG when there's lots of other things for…"
20:45 pm
Cont'd: "…spokes to be doing?" A: "It's not individual budgets going to GA, it's the big picture, the process, the big number. Since any..."
20:46 pm
Cont'd: "…working group can come here to be a part of that process…" Also he suggests that line-item vetoes be part of that process. #nycsc
20:46 pm
Ravi: "We'll see." More discussion of all this at Occupy Town Squares on Saturday. #nycsc #ows
20:47 pm
Sage notes that facilitation is noticing there's a bit of a back of forth, temp check allowing that conversational method. #nycsc #ows
20:47 pm
Cool, people are into letting things be a little less formal, although Sage notes that only two parties should go back and forth at all.
20:48 pm
Bless gets up to speak, saying he's Spoke for Kitchen. He's not, hahah. He's gonna do it anyway. #nycsc #ows
20:48 pm
Sage, to Bless: "The only reason we're letting you speak is we don't have anyone to pick you up and carry you out." #nycsc #ows
20:48 pm
Bless lets us know that he and Ice need help with breakfast in the kitchen. Ows.kitchen@gmail.com if you can help. #nycsc #ows
20:50 pm
Housing's concern is next, wants to make sure the second item has been generalized, which is true. Budget isn't the *only* function of #SC.
20:51 pm
Jeff (Housing) also feels the definition of "operational" becomes tricky when you open the SC up to all working groups. #nycsc #ows
20:51 pm
A: "Yeah, we were talking about it with minutes -- all WGs can discuss budgets." Doesn't mean that all WGs get one. #nycsc #ows
20:51 pm
Jeff notes he feels it makes the whole definition of operational working groups moot, but steps back b/c we're not discussing that tonight.
20:52 pm
Anthony expresses his interpretation of the definition of "operational," which is not part of this proposal and a contentious loop we've...
20:53 pm
Cont'd: …gotten stuck in many times before. Everyone boos merrily. Moving on. #nycsc #ows
20:53 pm
Anthony (Class War) continues. "This is very important stuff we're dealing with right now, so let's bring this discussion to our WGs."#nycsc
20:54 pm
Facilitation: "We just have a concern, it's really straightforward, about getting the word out about this proposal. We know you don't..."
20:54 pm
Cont'd: "…need to post it, and you did send it in earlier today." Ravi notes it's been posted. "But we just want you to make sure…"
20:54 pm
Cont'd :"…you get the monday proposal posted." Ravi says yes, and she'll be around and at Occupy Town Square, and everywhere! #nycsc #ows
20:54 pm
TechOps' C: "We have a problem with the clarification of the second one." Less happy with something they wanted changed in the first...
20:55 pm
Cont'd: …place than they were before. It's the language about SC being *the* venue for budgetary proposals. #nycsc #ows
20:56 pm
A: "We're talking about it's the sole venue for *recurring* budgets," which go to Ops groups anyway. DA, movement stuff still goes to GA.
20:57 pm
TechOps is still uncomfortable with "sole venue," which is the new language. A: "This is confirming what is already happening." #nycsc
20:57 pm
A: "These are groups that ppl agree are operational. Groups with recurring budgets are pretty much operational." #nycsc #ows
20:57 pm
They acknowledge they can't tell the GA how to give money, and can't rule out the GA approving budgets. But they feel like the… #nycsc #ows
20:58 pm
Cont'd: ..most consistent way to do direct budgeting is via Spokes. Things that need shorter-term funding for projects won't need...
20:58 pm
Cont'd: …a recurring budget. Next Concern: "RE: ending petty cash; is that frozen b/c of spending freeze?" A: "Yes." #nycsc #ows
20:58 pm
Concern: "When does the freeze end?" A: "There's a lack of clarity on that." Asks Minutes for help. "I thought it was for a month and..."
20:59 pm
Cont'd :"…would come back if we didn't do anything." Others believe it will stay in effect until we pass a budget. "But either way, we..."
20:59 pm
Cont'd: "…should pass a budget." And also end petty cash before it comes back, so we can at least agree we need to budget. #nycsc #ows
20:59 pm
They aren't coming up with a budgetary process, they're setting one up, so that when the freeze lifts, regardless of how, we're good. #nycsc
21:00 pm
The concerned spoke iterates that they would like to have more info about spending in past. A: "Yes. The discussion about…" #nycsc #ows
21:00 pm
Cont'd :"…information on what we've spent is" in the proposal, specifies sharing that info. #nycsc #ows
21:01 pm
C: "It's our understanding that groups that are not operational also have the option of petitioning to become operational." #nycsc #ows
21:01 pm
A: "Yes. Absolutely. And that's envisioned in larger proposal quite explicitly that we would restart ratification process." #nycsc #ows
21:02 pm
Jeff again. He's totally into both the first item and the third item, notes Housing had issues with petty cash accountability. #nycsc #ows
21:02 pm
Jeff: "I think what's bothering me [re: the second one] is.. I understand sentiment behind it, but semantics can be really important."#nycsc
21:02 pm
Cont'd: "I just want clarity about what the change is from the original statement you had written about the purpose of Spokescouncil."#nycsc
21:03 pm
Jeff: "I just want clarity as to how this is different from what we consensed on previously." #nycsc #ows
21:03 pm
A: "Spokes has been the place where budgetary decisions are made." I.e. Kitchen, Housing. "I think what we are saying when we say OWS.."
21:03 pm
Cont'd :"…working groups will check each other's budgetary access is that this involves groups reporting their budget to.." #nycsc #ows
21:04 pm
Cont'd :"…spokescouncil at a given time, and that groups will have the opportunity to raise issues about those budgets." We're already...
21:04 pm
Cont'd: …doing it, but they want to formalize it. Jeff: "If we're already doing it, why are you proposing it?" #nycsc #ows
21:04 pm
Ravi and Christine try to explain, it's because it lays the groundwork for the bigger proposal. "Aside from the original SC proposal..."
21:05 pm
Cont'd: "…we're making an effort to structure the financial reportback process." #nycsc #ows
21:05 pm
Jeff says he doesn't want us to consense to anything we're not discussing, so if that is true, we should wait. #nycsc #ows
21:06 pm
They want to clarify the language by adding to the second proposal explicit language requiring WGs to report back to SC on budgets. #nycsc
21:06 pm
Jeff: "So that's the whole purpose of the second line?" Everything else looks like existing policy. "Basically, you want reportbacks."#nycsc
21:08 pm
Sage asks us to temp check giving the proposers a few minutes to recompose their language. They'll have a breakout grp re: part 2. #nycsc
21:25 pm
OK, we're coming back! Sage: "If you can hear me clap once!" (CLAP) "OK, that's enough." #nycsc #ows
21:26 pm
Apparently the breakout group working on the language for part 2 wants 5 more minutes. Sage temp checks… looks good. OK, 5 more mins. #nycsc
21:27 pm
Sage: "It's 9:30, we've got to be out of here by 10. I'd like to have a 5 minute buffer at least." First, we'll hear the new language.#nycsc
21:28 pm
Restating the proposal: "There are 2 directions we could go w/ this right now. A big concern raised in this breakout group is about..."
21:28 pm
Cont'd: "..the second line, which at start read: "the Spokescouncil is the sole venue for WGs to check each others' budgetary access."
21:28 pm
Cont'd: "That led into a conversation about whether it's the sole place; what about movement groups versus operational groups? Who..."
21:29 pm
Cont'd: "…gets to have a budget?" We could discuss that now, but are considering changing second line to: "One of the purposes..."
21:30 pm
Cont'd: "…of Spokescouncil is as a body where budgets are formed, checked, and agreed on by the community." Rest of convo would be Monday.
21:31 pm
They ask facilitation to temp-check changing that second line, b/c they want to make sure it doesn't raise any new concerns: #nycsc #ows
21:31 pm
"One of the purposes of SC is as a body in which recurring budgets of WGs are formed, checked, and reported back to the community." #nycsc
21:32 pm
OK, so the temp check was very positive, looks like no new concerns were raised. So, that's the new language for part 2. #nycsc #ows
21:33 pm
Sage is now asking for Standasides. There's one. FunHub? […. who? -Ed.] Someone points out WGs need to confer first. #nycsc #ows
21:36 pm
FunHub stood aside. Archive has a PoP questioning their legitimacy. They're actually "Fundraiser Hub" and are legit apparently. #nycsc #ows
21:36 pm
There's one block: Women Occupying Wall Street. "We believe that breaking this up into two different discussions isn't the right…" #nycsc
21:37 pm
Cont'd: "…thing to do." Don't think rules should be generated and then discussed, but vice versa. Cart before horse. #nycsc #ows
21:37 pm
Cont'd: "This is something happening in #OWS quite a bit; do something and then talk about it." Want rules to come from discussion. #nycsc
21:37 pm
A: "I really wish you brought this up earlier. I had no idea this was a blocking concern for your group; wish it had been expressed." #nycsc
21:38 pm
WoW responds: "I don't think the process we've gone through has allowed for that." Lots of muddiness, didn't have concern til now. #nycsc
21:39 pm
A: "I think the reason we felt it was really important to do those 3 things first is that often, these conversations get really bogged..."
21:39 pm
Cont'd: "…down in details, and we think some of the most important groundwork is in these first 3 things, to rein the convo in." #nycsc
21:39 pm
They also feel these first three things are things we all basically agree on. "If we discussed the whole thing, it wouldn't pass right now."
21:40 pm
Cont'd: "Let's consense on the things we all agree on, and then" move forward from there on the more contentious ideas. #nycsc #ows
21:40 pm
Ravi: "Also, to follow up on financial assembly - no one showed up. Was to be 4 hours long. Doing this in one SC is impossible, so…"
21:40 pm
Cont'd: "..we split it up into pieces." Note immediacy of need to end petty cash before possible end of freeze Wednesday. #nycsc #ows
21:41 pm
Ravi: "We may only have today and Monday; feel that w/o groundwork, this wouldn't be fruitful Monday." Was tactical decision. #nycsc #ows
21:41 pm
Cont'd: "We just want to explain where we're coming from. It may or may not alleviate your block." WoW will converse. #nycsc #ows
21:45 pm
Sage brings us back. "It's 9:45, we have to do this now. Does your block still stand, WoW?" A: "Yes, it does still stand." #nycsc #ows
21:46 pm
WoW: "We think that the rules shouldn't come before the conversation." Proposers look to be aiming to modified consensus. #nycsc #ows
21:46 pm
WoW restate their block: "We don't believe the first 3 sections we're consensing on tonight should be done before the fourth…" #nycsc #ows
21:47 pm
Cont'd: "…section. That should be a part of this conversation." Ravi: "We feel comfortable we understand your block; although we disagree.."
21:47 pm
Cont'd: "..we hope our comments about needing to have these particular discussions within these time periods explain our view." #nycsc #ows
21:56 pm
So, we voted 18 up, 2 down. But then the Kitchen spoke took issue with the result, so we're having a recount. 19 yays this time. #nycsc #ows
21:59 pm
And now 3 down. So, they're trying to get consensus on just ending petty cash now…. #nycsc #ows
22:00 pm
Not happening; we have to leave. So, the proposal didn't pass, but the discussion is already scheduled to continue Monday. #nycsc #ows
22:00 pm
OK! That's it! Thanks for tuning into another Spokescouncil, fam. Much love. #nycsc #ows