20:04 pm
Hey fam! We are live at the #NYCSC.
20:04 pm
Reportbacks: Occupy Farms: If you want to get your hands dirty, get out of the city, contact us! #nycsc #ows
20:05 pm
Reportback: Outreach: Explaining how ComHub and InfoHub merged before the eviction but have realized have different goals. #nycsc #ows
20:06 pm
Outreach saying InfoHub will now be "Occupy Information" and ComHub will split off. #nycsc #ows
20:07 pm
Outreach: We are having an Occupy Town Square on Feb. 11, after the success of the Town Square at Washington Square Park. 1-5 at 86th Street
20:08 pm
Now, first proposal: From Women Occupying Wall Street (WOW.) #nycsc #ows
20:09 pm
The WOW proposal: http://t.co/kQG56RBc #nycsc #ows
20:13 pm
Breakout for spokes to discuss among themselves the WOW proposal.
20:20 pm
Melanie, repping WOW: The idea is we make this decision together.
20:20 pm
Now taking clarifying questions about the WOW proposal.
20:21 pm
WOW: There is a lot of dialogue happening with other groups. The idea is for this to come from all of us.
20:21 pm
DAP: We're wondering why we don't spend time talking about his every other Friday, like we're supposed to.
20:22 pm
WOW: The idea is this works with that, but the proposal is to do this in addition to those meetings.
20:22 pm
DAP: Why do you feel we need to spend times at our meetings doing this instead of meetings specifically for that?
20:23 pm
WOW: We spend a lot of time at our meetings dealing with this. We are being asked to only talk about business ...
20:23 pm
WOW: There's no space for us to talk about emotion.
20:24 pm
New CQ: What is the goal? What is the objective? #nycsc #ows
20:25 pm
WOW: I think us coming up with it [a grievance council] as a community, will make us feel better about it. #nycsc #ows
20:27 pm
David (Facilitation): A suggestion, we do this week-by-week, and evaluate as we go. #nycsc #ows
20:28 pm
Stairs (Negesti): That sounds like a friendly amendment, so please wait for that time.
20:29 pm
New CQ: Have there been discussions with Safer Spaces about having a Grievance Council more often?
20:29 pm
WOW: I'm not asking for a Grievance Council, I'm asking for us to come to one.
20:29 pm
CQ: Do you understand there is a Grievance Council currently?
20:30 pm
WOW: We should ask the group, because I am not aware that we have one.
20:30 pm
WOW: Please, enlighten me, because if there is a Grievance Council, how do we come to it if we don't know it exists?
20:30 pm
Stairs asking to cut down the side conversations.
20:31 pm
CQ from Minutes: What is the difference between a Grievance Council and Open Spaces?
20:31 pm
WOW: We wouldn't be waiting for a weekly Grievance Council meeting, and wouldn't have to go to Open Spaces to talk about it.
20:32 pm
WOW: It wouldn't be another meeting we have to go to, another Google group, but we'd discuss it here.
20:33 pm
CQ from Accounting: Is there there/what groups exist currently to discuss grievances b/w people and groups in #OWS?
20:33 pm
Stairs: There's a way to discuss this, it's through points of information.
20:33 pm
Discussion between stairs and someone who is not a spoke.
20:35 pm
POI from Sage: We have mediation, Safer Spaces, 3 or 4 working groups like gossip ...
20:36 pm
Stairs (Negesti) seeing a lot of emotion and wants to take a moment to work it out, take a deep breath.
20:37 pm
POI from Safer Spaces: The Open Spaces is only every other week. We have been holding Grievance Circles on the off-Fridays.
20:38 pm
WOW: If there is indeed a functioning Grievance Circle happening, why does the community not know about it? #nycsc #ows
20:38 pm
Stairs trying to stop the back-and-forth between Melanie from WOW and Sage. #nycsc #ows
20:39 pm
WOW: I've been to the Friday meetings and the Community Agreements were worked on ... it took 3 months for them to come to us. #nycsc #ows
20:40 pm
WOW:... we still have not agreed on the Community Agreements. I feel it's because we still don't have community buy-in. #nycsc #ows
20:40 pm
Melanie seems willing to table this proposal. Negesti encourages her to speak with her group. #nycsc #ows
20:43 pm
Ravi jumps in to further explain the idea behind this proposal. #nycsc #ows
20:45 pm
WOW from Ravi: We will table this if the Safer Spaces Grievance Council proposal is moving along.
20:46 pm
Stairs asks if anyone has information on how the Grievance Council is progressing. #nycsc #ows
20:46 pm
POI: This process takes a long time, and instead of divergent tracks, I'd like to integrate this into the work that's happening.
20:47 pm
Stairs: Ok, we are not going to table this. We are going to continue with stack.
20:49 pm
Sage offers Facilitation feedback and Stairs says this is not the time for that. [Btw, "Stairs" = Facilitators]
20:50 pm
Proposers discussing what they want to do.
20:51 pm
@emst, as Stairs, announces proposers have decided to table the proposal from WOW.
20:51 pm
Stairs: The space has asked that we respect this is a church that we are in.
20:54 pm
Sorry, there are disruptions and it's not clear what's going on.
20:56 pm
Sean just asked someone not to call the facilitator "sweetheart" when we were just listening to the Women's Caucus.
20:56 pm
Lots of commotion around Sage confronting Negesti (stairs).
20:58 pm
Now, Jose from Medics Street Team. Says their budget required them to come back at 4 weeks and do a report.
20:59 pm
... Even though it never made it into the minutes. Out of their own transparency, they are here.
21:00 pm
All their expenses are on http://t.co/m7wMfod5 in past proposals, and their full budget is on https://t.co/afk6qkhf
21:01 pm
Jose now detailing Street Medics budget. Evenly spent on supplies, Metrocards, patient transport, and food. #nycsc #ows
21:02 pm
Jose from Street Medics say they often pay just for a sandwich for patients, because many patients can't even afford that. #nycsc #ows
21:03 pm
Jose from Medics explaining that people have gone to various trainings around the East Coast and used money on jail support.
21:04 pm
Jose from Medics: Wants to get feedback about budget and wonders about how his WG doesn't get Metrocards.
21:04 pm
Jose from Medics: Would like group to authorize them getting money in a lump sum every month, not have to come back to SC all the time.
21:05 pm
Jose from Medics: Another reason for a monthly budget is if we don't use money in a week, we lose it. Want to plan larger scale.
21:06 pm
Starting stack for questions about their budget. Stairs clarifying if he wants a formal budget proposal.
21:06 pm
Jose just wants feedback from people, not necessarily a proposal.
21:07 pm
Kitchen: It seems like you spend a lot on transportation. Would it be helpful if there was a WG or someone with cheaper transportation?
21:08 pm
Street Medics: Definitely. It would be helpful if there were someone within OWS with a van or something. We also need emergency transport.
21:08 pm
Direct Action CQ: It would be helpful if we could know your needs. #nycsc #ows
21:09 pm
Street Medics: Food, a convergence space--a place to prepare herbal medicine, to rest, to come together-- and transport.
21:10 pm
Direct Action: Are these things you are adding on to the budget?
21:10 pm
Street Medics: We have enough money for now, these are not on top of what we are already spending on.
21:11 pm
Structure: Is it possible we can change whatever rule is preventing you guys from getting Metrocards?
21:11 pm
Structure: And how is the loss of the Office affecting you guys?
21:12 pm
Street Medics: We have clinics at Charlotte's place. We try to Dumpster and support local farms.
21:12 pm
DAP: If you want to donate food to you, how do we do so?
21:12 pm
Street Medics: owsmedics@gmail.com
21:13 pm
Street Medics asking to get Metrocards and to get their budgeted money a month at a time. #nycsc #ows
21:14 pm
Spokes now conferring on this proposal. #nycsc #ows
21:23 pm
Opening stack on clarifying questions about the Street Medics proposal. #nycsc #ows
21:23 pm
Sorry, Stairs clarifies it's "feedback," not clarifying questions.
21:24 pm
Town Planning: Wants that this budget for the future be properly resubmitted, and transportation expenses detailed.
21:25 pm
Outreach: Our concern is about getting the money monthly, in part because having such a large sum of money per month = not a good idea.
21:26 pm
Street Medics: The biggest concern is there are often large expenses that come up not very regularly. ...#nycsc #ows
21:26 pm
Street Medics: And we are operating on "use it or lose it" budgeting, which doesn't work for us. #nycsc #ows
21:27 pm
Street Medics: It's not that we want to withdraw that money all at once, but we have access to it.
21:27 pm
Stack is closed so moving on to proposal from Class War. #nycsc #ows
21:28 pm
Class War: Proposal is to 1) make it so that both operation and movement groups have voice in the Spokes Council. #nycsc #ows
21:28 pm
Class War: 2) To clarify the difference between an operational and a movement group. #nycsc #ows
21:29 pm
The full proposal from Class War: http://t.co/bb3MBAPR #nycsc #ows
21:30 pm
Getting POPs from people confused about why we moved off from Medics proposal so quickly.
21:30 pm
CQ: What are you asking this body to do? #nycsc #ows
21:31 pm
Class War: Change the way this body operates and how working groups are defined.
21:32 pm
Someone brings up that they wanted to talk about violence versus nonviolence on the agenda. #nycsc #ows
21:33 pm
Proposer says he just talked to someone doing his proposal but better, so is tabling. #nycsc #ows
21:33 pm
Apparently Women Occupying Nations had a proposal up tonight, but didn't show. #nycsc #ows
21:33 pm
Now, Lopi, representing DAP, bringing discussion about violence. #nycsc #ows
21:34 pm
DAP: Earlier tonight on WBAI some people representing OWS said we do not stand for nonviolence. #nycsc #ows
21:34 pm
DAP: If you look on NYCGA website, under Principles of Solidarity, it clearly says we are a nonviolent movement. #nycsc #ows
21:35 pm
DAP: Is now reading from the Statement of Autonomy. http://t.co/DN3GEoCf #nycsc #ows
21:36 pm
Stairs trying to facilitate discussion. Suggests smaller breakout groups. Lopi says she is just bringing topic for discussion. #nycsc #ows
21:38 pm
Stairs clarifies that we are going to start having conversation about violence. [Ed: Only 20 mins left; not enough time for this convo.]
21:39 pm
DAP, Lopi, trying to clarify her position. Some people start yelling. #nycsc #ows
21:39 pm
Stairs temp checks on getting into breakout groups. Looks negative. #nycsc #ows
21:40 pm
So, no breakout groups. Opening stack on discussing this. #nycsc #ows
21:41 pm
Direct Action: "Never has it passed in GA that the words 'We are a nonviolent movement' have been consensed upon." #nycsc #ows
21:41 pm
Direct Action: People are not saying we are a violent movement, just that we are not necessarily nonviolent.
21:42 pm
Direct Action: It would be hypocritical for us to think that nonviolence is the only way for us to get our word out.
21:43 pm
Direct Action references other global movements, Egypt, etc. to try to prove violence is sometimes necessary.
21:43 pm
Town Planning (Robert): Says he doesn't want to be in any movement that uses violence. Reads from Principles of Solidarity. #nycsc #ows
21:44 pm
New speaker: People treat violence and nonviolence as if they are black and white, and they are not. #nycsc #ows
21:44 pm
Same speaker: Is destruction violence? Is pacifism violence? #nycsc #ows
21:45 pm
Solidarity: I think what Lopi was trying to say is how are we defining violence? We had this discussion about ppl throwing ...
21:45 pm
...beer bottles at police officers' heads. We need to be clear about where the line is. #nycsc #ows
21:46 pm
Solidarity: I think at some point a line needs to be drawn, that we say, "This is not what we stand for." #nycsc #ows
21:47 pm
Think Tank: I talk to a lot of people in the park outside the movement and the perception is if we say we are not a nonviolent movement ...
21:47 pm
... people would stop supporting us. #nycsc #ows
21:48 pm
WOW (Melanie): If we chant we are a nonviolent movement but still have these small factions that are violent ...
21:49 pm
... I wouldn't feel grateful if you're throwing bottles next to me. I don't want to be a shield. Don't pretend you're part of this movement.
21:51 pm
DAP (Lopi) espousing the merits of nonviolence.
21:52 pm
DAP (Lopi): I am all for direct action! I am all about that shit! But I'm not ready to say we don't embrace nonviolence.
21:53 pm
Accounting: I'm speaking for myself. But we have defined violence six different ways in this conversation. ...
21:53 pm
Accounting: Do we only stand in solidarity if I agree with your tactics? This is a question we all need to ask ourselves. #nycsc #ows
21:54 pm
A little bit of a disruption.
21:55 pm
Facilitation: The last 10 years ppl have been talking about diversity of tactics, which really means light property destruction ..
21:55 pm
... not violence and not heavy property destruction. We should have conversations about what's strategic and not. ...
21:56 pm
... I want to caution us that a lot of our friends have done years in jail for *talking* about property destruction. So be cognizant of that
21:57 pm
Outreach (Ravi): Come and join us, let's have these discussions. #nycsc #ows
21:58 pm
OWS en Espanol: In America, we have plenty of firsthand experience with this. Violence is not cute. #nycsc #ows
21:58 pm
OWS en Espanol: My father was tortured to death. That was violence. It affected my family. ...#nycsc #ows
22:01 pm
New speaker: There's not a lot of people in #OWS who are throwing bottles at people's heads. #nycsc #ows
22:02 pm
Cont'd: Let's stop saying there are elements within DA and within #OWS who think it's okay to throw bottles at people. [much dissent]
22:03 pm
Cont'd: It was individuals, individuals who are not in working groups, who are not here for this conversation. ...
22:04 pm
Cont'd: That being said, I would get between you if you are turning someone over to the police. [more disruptions and crosstalk]
22:04 pm
Safer Spaces: This conversation has been about the actions we do and if they are violent or nonviolent, but history has shown that ...
22:05 pm
... we have been violent within the movement. Like these Councils, we have had a lot of violence. #nycsc #ows
22:06 pm
Cont'd: I don't know how we come off as nonviolent to the media when we have this going on here. #nycsc #ows
22:06 pm
WOW (Melanie) points out a press release (?) that cites using "any means necessary." #nycsc #ows
22:07 pm
WOW: Thinks this is a solidarity document that was approved by GA.
22:08 pm
Now some discussion about an individual taking pictures and if that's okay. #nycsc #ows
22:09 pm
Some calls to make the photographer delete his pics. [Ed: It's a public, open meeting.] #nycsc #ows
22:11 pm
Structure (Calvin) starting to talk but is being talked over.
22:12 pm
David from Facilitation suggests we continue talking about this at Open Spaces on Friday.
22:14 pm
That's it, fam. Thanks for reading the tweets. This has been @CarrieM213 live tweeting another #OWS Spokes Council. Much love. #nycsc