13:22 pm
Hey fam! We'll be live from today's #ows #financialassembly! 2pm @ 60 WallSt.
14:00 pm
Live from 60 WallSt. Small crowd so far gathering for #ows #financialassembly including Jason, proposer of the budget freeze.
14:02 pm
Archives is here and excited to get a budget after many failed attempts to have their proposal heard by #nycsc. #ows #financialassembly
14:04 pm
10-15 minute gossip session happening while we wait for some more people to arrive. #ows #financialassembly
14:10 pm
Just announced that there are supposedly people coming down with the intent to disrupt the proceedings of the #ows #financialassembly.
14:11 pm
Jason states the tentative agenda for the meeting. Starting with your name, what brought you to occupy... #ows #financialassembly
14:13 pm
... then questions inspired by original Sept17 mtgs. What is the current crisis? How can we better handle finances #ows #financialassembly
14:13 pm
Jason intends for breakout groups to discuss these questions and then plan a 2nd mtg to continue budgeting. #ows #financialassembly
14:15 pm
So far, only enough people for one breakout group. Deciding not to use stack and have loose facilitation. #ows #financialassembly
14:18 pm
Introductions beginning. [I don't feel comfortable transcribing this part - Ed.]
14:24 pm
Jason says part of the intent of budget freeze proposal was to initiate the #financialassembly convos around fiscal responsibilty in #ows.
14:25 pm
15 people currently here. 2 members of @OWSAccounting. #ows #financialassembly
14:27 pm
[I'm on my phone so I'll be doing my best to transcribe the essence of what people say, not exact quotes. Sorry! -Ed.]
14:30 pm
Looking like we'll break out into 3 groups. Threr questions to discuss... #ows #financialassembly
14:32 pm
1. What is the crisis with the way money has been spent? 2.What are our personal visions for how we should deal w/$? #ows #financialassembly
14:33 pm
3. What are tangible action steps we can take to work towards those visions? #ows #financialassembly
14:34 pm
Each group will write their thoughts and then Jason offers to synthesize notes and disseminate prior to next mtg. #ows #financialassembly
14:34 pm
Jason sees this as the first in a series of mtgs working toward establishing comprehensive budgets. #ows #financialassembly
14:36 pm
Someone feels we are going too fast and must first have open discussions about the financial crisis we're facing. #ows #financialassembly
14:36 pm
We've decided to address the first question as a full group. #ows #financialassembly
14:39 pm
Requested that someone from @OWSAccounting describe their interpretation of the crisis first. #ows #financialassembly
14:43 pm
Meeting taking a detour while we try to address the immediate needs of an individual in need of food. #ows #financialassembly
14:45 pm
Several individuals expressing concern w/the functioning of OWS but unwilling to help this meeting be productive. #ows #financialassembly
14:48 pm
#nypd just walked over to ask us to keep the noise down. #ows #financialassembly
14:51 pm
Attempting to get the meeting back on track after several disruptions and a bit of mutual antagonizing w/#nypd. #ows #financialassembly
14:52 pm
Jason saying he's trying to create a place for listening as well as speaking. #ows #financialassembly
14:52 pm
Susan from @owsAccounting will start the convo. Anthony offers to provide loose facilitation. #ows #financialassembly
14:54 pm
Susan speaks on the role of accntng to take money and do the GAs bidding. Feels the 100/day WG rule games the system.#ows #financialassembly
14:55 pm
Susan - LibertySq was a vortex of energy but now there is no central accountability. Affinity groups are a problem. #ows #financialassembly
14:57 pm
Susan speaks on developing structural problems. Affinity groups providing resources w/o accountability. #ows #financialassembly
14:58 pm
Anthony, also from Accounting now speaks on his experience there. Joined because of his issues with them. #ows #financialassembly
14:59 pm
Many working groups being faulty with receipts, especially many groups who blame others for being irresponsible. #ows #financialassembly
15:00 pm
Anthony believes WGs should be able to raise funds independent of #nycga w/o having to be an affinity group. #ows #financialassembly
15:02 pm
"Different kinds of people need different kinds of communication." - Sage #ows #financialassembly
15:03 pm
Trish trying to clarify who called this mtg & why. Says nycga council wg also has a spending freeze group. #ows #financialassembly
15:05 pm
[To be clear, people are expressing their personal views from their experiences. Not official positions of any Working Groups. - Ed.]
15:10 pm
Anthony asks for ten seconds of silence after some heated back and forth between Trish and the group. #ows #financialassembly
15:12 pm
Jason details his frustrations w/Finance (now @OWSAccounting), accusations of theft and shadiness started early. #ows #financialassembly
15:13 pm
Jason says he tried to join Finance but was not allowed to join. They were opaque and not transparent. #ows #financialassembly
15:14 pm
Jason notes that since changing their name to @OWSAccounting from Finance, some issues have been resolved... #ows #financialassembly
15:15 pm
.. and there seems to be more transparency and a focus on just maintaining the books. #ows #financialassembly
15:16 pm
Susan says many discrepancies originate not from theft but from lack of bookkeeping & missing receipts. #ows #financialassembly
15:17 pm
Susan asks for us to take rumors with a grain of salt. #ows #financialassembly
15:19 pm
Jason says the current irresponsible way we've been handling money/resources reflects the system we're fighting. #ows #financialassembly
15:21 pm
Someone says he reached out to @OWSAccounting with people who wanted to help keep books & offer was refused. #ows #financialassembly
15:22 pm
Pointed out that a legal firm runs background checks on volunteers who have direct access to #ows finance accounts. #ows #financialassembly
15:25 pm
Back and forth between Trish and members of @OWSAccounting. Kind of devolving into story time. #ows #financialassembly
15:27 pm
[As soon as one disruption ends another pops up. Its like whack-a-mole right now - Ed.] #ows #financialassembly
15:29 pm
Jason tries to reel it in, telling Trish she is horribly disrupting the mtg & he wants to hear other people. #ows #financialassembly
15:31 pm
Yoni says the critical issue is bad accounting and lack of information on the part of people requesting funds. #ows #financialassembly
15:32 pm
Yoni believes the 100/day was totally irresponsible and allowed for burning through money. #ows #financialassembly
15:33 pm
Yoni notes our comrades in Egypt are dying and we're squabbling over money. #ows #financialassembly
15:34 pm
Someone points out Direct Action was given $7500 for #d17 and nothing came of it. #ows #financialassembly
15:35 pm
Marisa says we've created a fucked up power dynamic btwn 2 bodies with centralized control of funds. #ows #financialassembly
15:36 pm
She thinks we should have independent fundraising that reports back to #nycga to work under the #ows name. #ows #financialassembly
15:37 pm
Marisa says affinity groups have been used to cloak vanguard activity and not to encourage autonomous actions. #ows #financialassembly
15:39 pm
[Should be noted the loudest group in 60WallSt is now the pack of #nypd & private security socializing in the middle of the atrium. -Ed.]
15:41 pm
Someone points out its problematic to allow privileged people (with Macs & smart phones) to handle the money. #ows #financialassembly
15:43 pm
Tashy says the principle should be "To each according to their needs, from each according to their ability." #ows #financialassembly
15:44 pm
Tashy notes our system is too uniform and chose to not acknowledge disparities. We can't be in solidarity til we do #ows #financialassembly
15:45 pm
Money is the point of crystallization, the place of truth, & that hierarchy was established in the movement y -tashy #ows #financialassembly
15:46 pm
Jason responding to assumptions made about his intent of the proposal. Tries to clarify. #ows #financialassembly
15:47 pm
He's looking forward to running out of money so we can focus back on ourselves & what this movement is about. #ows #financialassembly
15:48 pm
Jason looks forward to having conversations about bigger things than how we spend money. #ows #financialassembly
15:49 pm
"What can we show for the hundred of thousands of dollars we spent in 4 months?" - Jason #ows #financialassembly
15:51 pm
"This movement isn't about money, but we still live in a society that requires it." - Anthony #ows #financialassembly
15:52 pm
Anthony says we need to spend a lot more time & effort at the planning stage before we spend money. #ows #financialassembly
15:55 pm
Someone thinks we have a lot to show for what we've done. It might not be tangible but we've changed conversations. #ows #financialassembly
15:56 pm
Marisa wants to move to long term structural changes & networks established to develop real alternatives. #ows #financialassembly
15:57 pm
She believes a standing pool of money encourages unnecessary spending/proposals & lack of creativity. #ows #financialassembly
16:05 pm
Ravi points out we have to able to do logistical planning to make sure our actions/activists are supported. #ows #financialassembly
16:07 pm
Someone wonders if we can ask for donations of sorts other than $$ around specific needs or actions. #ows #financialassembly
16:09 pm
Susan says she doesn't want to donate to pay for social services for people who don't actually participate. #ows #financialassembly
16:12 pm
Susan says she doesn't believe you can fund raise in kind. We need to actively fund raise millions of dollars. #ows #financialassembly
16:13 pm
Jeff asserts in kind donations weren't handled more responsibly than monetary donations. #ows #financialassembly
16:14 pm
Jeff wants us to ask the question who are we and what are we doing? What is an occupier? Who is using resources? #ows #financialassembly
16:15 pm
Jeff thinks we should be establishing a structural backbone of the movement as a whole. Long term infrastructure. #ows #financialassembly
16:17 pm
Someone asserts we need concrete goals to work toward and not be as reactionary. #ows #financialassembly
16:20 pm
Jack asserts that if you care about direct democracy & #nycga decision making then you must show up to participate. #ows #financialassembly
16:21 pm
Bobby explains the drawbacks of GAs in other groups/orgs & moat don't deal w/resource allocation in that forum. #ows #financialassembly
16:24 pm
[I have to step away from #ows #financialassembly to go to @OWSFacilitation mtg. This mtg is a soapbox Im unclear what will come of it -Ed.]
16:25 pm
[Comments, questions, feedback, points of affection, hit me up at @PoweredByCats. Thx family!]
19:16 pm
RT @raviahmad: NYC GA will start at 730, at 60 Wall street @OWScom @LibertySqGA #NYCGA #ows
19:39 pm
Hi fam! We're starting tonight's General Assembly. Follow here, @LibertySqGA2, @LibertySqGA3, and @LibertySqGA4. #nycga #ows
19:40 pm
Amin and Christina will be our "stairs" tonight. We're at 60 Wall, which is a recent decision, so they temp check proceeding. #nycga #ows
19:42 pm
Folks feel good about it! So we'll continue w/ GA. Stairs will review handsignals; folks at home can check 'em out: http://t.co/VHmHwQl9
19:45 pm
Stairs: "We'll set 20 minutes per agenda item, as the space we're in has a closing time." #nycga #ows
19:46 pm
There are 3 proposals: 1) Jeff re: Open Meetings, 2) Changes to GA schedule, 3) Park Slope residents' working grow. #nycga #ows
19:48 pm
First, we'll do announcements and reportbacks. Alexi announces a meeting to determine exit/housing strategy going forward. #nycga #ows
19:48 pm
Alexi: "I just hope that Mon at 6pm, those interested to work on alternative housing and an exit strategy" will come to 60 Wall. #nycga #ows
19:49 pm
Anthony: "Open Accounting meetings are 5:30pm Fridays at 60 Wall, and Class War WG Wednesdays at 5, either here or Charlotte's Place."#nycga
19:49 pm
Jack: "I was asked by the student assembly to announce that they called for a 3/1 Day of Action; they're planning stuff." #nycga #ows
19:50 pm
Ravi: "The WG proposal (in terms of what a group needs to be) kicked in yesterday. We're contacting lots of groups, telling ppl they.."
19:50 pm
Cont'd: "…need to post their minutes and meeting times because we don't want to deactivate your entry on the website." #nycga #ows
19:51 pm
Ravi notes that we're working on ways for folks who aren't a working group but are still doing stuff to use nycga.net for that. #nycga #ows
19:52 pm
Next, Patrick, Vision and Goals, notes that GA signaled that they should bring their vision statement back on the 24th for final consensus.
19:52 pm
Shawn: "DA working group has formed a new subgroup called the Feminist DA" -- they meet Thursdays 7:30 at Judson Church! #nycga #ows
19:53 pm
Next, Lady. "There was a lot of action that happened after I got arrested, but the GSD group is still on." Focused less on meetings… #nycga
19:53 pm
Cont'd: …and more on facilitating direct actions, and getting video and response to those actions. Check with her when you see her! #nycga
19:54 pm
Dallas: "Some of you may have heard of MegaUpload -- it got shut down this week. The FBI's website also got shut down!" Uptwinkles! #nycga
19:54 pm
Dallas also notes February 11th will be a "Don't Buy Any Media" day. Sumumba notes that 60 Wall security needs us out by 10. #nycga #ows
19:55 pm
Lorenzo: "Today we live streamed the Egyptian Solidarity rally; 200 ppl at its peak. Super rowdy, super awesome." #nycga #ows
19:55 pm
Cont'd: "We went to OccupyTheCourts too;" also a shout out to the Bay where folks shut down the SF financial district! #nycga #ows
19:56 pm
Next, Jeff from Housing has a proposal about open meetings. Here's the proposal he's explaining now: http://t.co/res8qck3 #nycga #ows
19:57 pm
Jeff: "It was formalized in the Info/ComHub proposal that all working group meetings need to be open." Notes that some have had… #nycga #ows
19:57 pm
Cont'd: …closed meetings for specific topics. "There are some that have closed meetings for reason of security culture." #nycga #ows
20:00 pm
It essentially mandates that all operational decisions should happen in open meetings, except for some important secrecy (i.e. DA) #nycga
20:01 pm
CQ, Patrick: "Can you show us which working groups are having closed meetings, so we know whether this makes sense?" #nycga #ows
20:02 pm
A: "I don't want to call any of them out to make them feel targeted." He describes his belief that some groups operate on a closed model.
20:03 pm
Trish's CQ: "RE: structure, the new structure working group- the old structure WG is a great example of tht issue; that entity…" #nycga #ows
20:03 pm
Cont'd: "…had closed meetings," and consensed, she said, on a model known as "Spokes" [I question so much about these statements.) #nycga
20:04 pm
CQ, @sabokitty: "You'd cited DA as perhaps having a good reason for an exception- so it's in your proposal?" A: "Yes." #nycga #ows
20:06 pm
POI: Someone says DA, Accounting both do it (have closed meetings.) Ravi, earlier, note Info/ComHub proposal was neutral on closed mtgs.
20:07 pm
Nan comes up on stack, but wants to be last (?): Next, "Tech makes decisions all the time -- when you place a button… how do you decide.."
20:08 pm
Cont'd: "…what a decision is?" Jeff: "Any decision that requires consensus to go forward." Sumbumba asks if breakout groups are OK. #nycga
20:09 pm
Jeff:"Yes, they're fine as long as they're planning, but any decisions need to come back to the larger group." #nycga #ows
20:11 pm
Nan: "What about groups that do private and public meetings?" Notes that she feels like efforts to clarify WG role is top-down behavior.
20:12 pm
Jeff: "I think anyone in this movement is horizontal; we can all be leaders when we see something wrong and" can make a proposal. #nycga
20:12 pm
Cont'd: "The only groups I feel like have an issue with it is with caucuses who might set stipulations;" Jeff doesn't mind that but as...
20:12 pm
Cont'd: …long as they're open to anyone who fits that standard. That's it for CQs; now, concerns. #nycga #ows
20:13 pm
C: "These two are both blocking concerns: 1) being involved in operations involves some amount of responsibility; when they.." #nycga #ows
20:13 pm
Cont'd: "…make meetings closed it's because they have responsibilities." Notes Kitchen needs closed meetings to make decisions… #nycga #ows
20:14 pm
Cont'd: …to prevent people from coming in and just making them change their eating times or whatever. "But once you join, you're in." #nycga
20:14 pm
Her next concern is "working group autonomy." Notes she opposed proposal to remove Jeff from Housing because it did the same thing. #nycga
20:15 pm
Jeff: "Although WGs are autonomous, they must fit w/in certain standards." Feels GA can continue to set requirements such as that. #nycga
20:15 pm
"What this proposal is meant to clarify is whether working groups being open means "open participation" or "open to join" #nycga #ows
20:16 pm
"The other pt you mentioned was fact that some WGs would function better w/ closed meetings. I agree." "People often show up…" #nycga
20:16 pm
Cont'd: "…to voice complaints, then we never see them again, and leave us w/ policies" that are untenable. #nycga #ows
20:17 pm
OK, we've used the 20 minutes allocated for this proposal, so we're temp-checking extending time for 10 minutes. "That's very mixed." #nycga
20:17 pm
Cont'd: "Let's try temperature checking for 5 minutes." It's mixed, but more positive. Yoni asks if we can try to reach consensus w/o...
20:18 pm
Cont'd: …completing concerns and friendly amendments. Stairs notes that we'd have to table, can't do that. #nycga #ow
20:18 pm
Trish: "My concern is closed meetings w/ working groups that are making decisions that affect entire mvmnt. Those shouldn't happen in…"
20:18 pm
Cont'd: "…closed meetings." I.e., if Accounting was to move the account, should they do that in a closed meeting? #nycga #ows
20:19 pm
Cont'd: "Things that affect the entire movement should not be behind closed doors." Anthony's concern was already addressed, passes. #nycga
20:19 pm
Sage: "Also w/in Principles of Solidarity, there's a statement to keep meetings open, but even w/ that stment and value, still having…"
20:20 pm
Cont'd: "…secret meetings." So, even if this is approved, how do we call people on it if they're still excluding people from participating?
20:20 pm
Finn: "I'd like to speak about exclusion being *necessary* to this movement." Open meetings enable people to block anything they want.#nycga
20:21 pm
Finn asks Jeff: "Is it possible, during these open meetings, to consense in a less than 100% way to exclude someone for that mtg?" #nycga
20:21 pm
Evan: "I worry about creating a situation where compliance is gray, and it's tough to define when an individual is in or not in compliance."
20:21 pm
Cont'd: "The groups proposal is clear, explicit about what it requires for a WG to be a working group." W/o defining openness and… #nycga
20:22 pm
Cont'd: …what decisions need to happen where, we get in a situation where "there's too much gray." Stairs notes clock's at 1min left. #nycga
20:23 pm
Stairs: "We'll temp check again about extending time; we still have friendly amendments and then consensus process." #nycga #ows
20:23 pm
Cont'd: "If we don't get a positive check, it means the proposal is tabled & may be brought back at another time." Looks good, 5 more.#nycga
20:24 pm
We'll restate the proposal: "I'd like to propose that all decisions made in an #OWS working group happen in open meetings" for all… #nycga
20:24 pm
Cont'd: …"participants of #OWS to take part in with no requirement of working group membership." #nycga #ows
20:24 pm
Patrick's friendly amendment: "I suggest we add some language to suggest the GA specifically may consense that b/c of decisions…" #nycga
20:25 pm
Cont'd: "…a particular group needs to make, and the way they function, and the impact of unfamiliar folks," GA can exempt certain WGs.#nycga
20:26 pm
Jeff accepts that amendment. Next on stack, Nan. Nan: "I feel what the Accounting Lady has to say is very important, and I want to…" #nycga
20:26 pm
Cont'd: "…turn her concern into a friendly amendment." Someone: "What is it?" Person who spoke before doesn't feel there's a FA. #nycga #ows
20:28 pm
Nan's FA: "If a group chooses to be exclusive, they need to remain exclusive" universally. Jeff declines, notes that it's covered by…#nycga
20:28 pm
Cont'd: …the previous friendly amendment, or in other cases groups should be "affinity groups" and not "Working groups." #nycga
20:28 pm
Trish's FA is that decisions made in WGs that might affect entire movement should be understood to require GA consensus. #nycga #ows
20:29 pm
Jeff restates: "I'd like to propose that all consensus decisions" tht affect #OWS, "be open to all participants w/o membership." #nycga #OWS
20:29 pm
The Friendly Amendment that was accepted is that groups that need to have closed meetings need to request exceptions from the GA. #nycga
20:30 pm
Stairs: "We've reached end of the 5 minutes, but since we're so far into process, we'll test for consensus." Standasides? 8 of 'em. #nycga
20:32 pm
Any blocks? 3 blocks. Stairs: "Could the blockers please state their blocks?" First: "I feel strongly about WG autonomy; GA already has.."
20:32 pm
Cont'd: "…an enormous amount of power; WGs already must be open to join." That's good, but dictating internal structures is too much. #nycga
20:32 pm
There's no FA for that block, so it stands. Nan's block is "I don't want any of the working groups I'm in w/ private meetings" to be open...
20:33 pm
Cont'd: "…for just anyone to come in and disrupt the meetings." Anthony also blocks for same reason as Christine (working group autonomy).
20:33 pm
Finn: "I have a triple anti-block. It takes care of those three blocks. Point of process?" Hahah. Sage wants to voice concern w/ blocks...
20:33 pm
Cont'd: …but we currently have no way to do that (despite attempts). Trish asks why working group autonomy is at threat, Finn notes they hv.
20:34 pm
OK, Stairs ask if Jeff wants to move to modified consensus or table -- he'll move to modified consensus. #nycga #ows
20:35 pm
Stairs: "We're moving to modified (90%) consensus; we'll ask who is and who is not in favor of this proposal." In favor first... #nycga #ows
20:36 pm
There are 21 people in favor. Stairs: "Now raise your hand if you oppose this proposal." There are 17 against. #nycga #ows
20:37 pm
Stairs: "Just to be clear, there were 21 in favor of the proposal and 17 against. So this proposal does not pass modified consensus." #nycga
20:38 pm
OK, next: a proposal to restructure assemblies! @shawncarrie offers us copies of the proposal! It's here tho: http://t.co/BsAi52kz #nycga
20:39 pm
Nan lets us know the Park Slope proposer for the next item on the agenda had to leave, so this will be the last proposal. #nycga #ows
20:39 pm
Since this is the last proposal, Stairs suggest that we read it for 5 minutes and then take 30min to discuss it. We're into it. #nycga #ows
20:40 pm
RT @TesselizaTC: @LibertySqGA is live via @occupymusician (http://t.co/CxJkBRbc) <3 RT
20:46 pm
OK, everyone read the proposal? Here we go! @shawncarrie: "Hi everybody! This is the first time I've ever presented a proposal, so..."#nycga
20:46 pm
Cont'd: "..I'm a little nervous. I just want to talk about where this proposal came from; a lot of ppl felt like we need to revisit our.."
20:47 pm
Cont'd: "...assembly schedule/design. Many ppl worked on this proposal, it was an open public document on the Internet." #nycga #ows
20:47 pm
Cont'd: "I brought copies to many working groups, we had it delivered to both churches." It's to start a conversation about what... #nycga
20:48 pm
Cont'd: "...this community wants to do." "It does nothing to say, 'this is what will happen', it gives ideas to have a conversation about."
20:48 pm
Stairs: "We're going to now open stack for clarifying questions about this proposal; if there are things you didn't understand, ask!" #nycga
20:49 pm
Food showed up, so we're going to take 5 minutes to get food before we continue on with stack for clarifying questions. #nycga #ows
21:01 pm
OK, now opening stack on Clarifying Questions for the proposal being presented by @shawncarrie. #nycga #ows
21:02 pm
CQ: "Part one of the proposal seems to suggest that working groups are part of the structure of the New York City General Assembly..."
21:02 pm
Cont'd: "...what structures are you saying at equal?" Asks that Shawn list the ones that are "equal." #nycga #ows
21:02 pm
A: "In my mind, all of us are the NYC General Assembly, which is the largest umbrella term for this community. We went back and..."#nycga
21:03 pm
Cont'd: "...forth about whether to use Occupy Wall Street, etc." CQ: "So you're saying an affinity group is equal to a person and they..."
21:03 pm
Cont'd: "...have a right to vote?" A: "We don't vote; this doesn't make a distinction about access to power." #nycga #ows
21:04 pm
POI: "A general assembly is a body of individuals; they're in affinity groups and working groups but are, in the end, individuals." #nycga
21:05 pm
Stairs is closing stack on clarifying questions; Shawn will respond. A: "I apologize the language is causing ppl to trip up..." #nycga #ows
21:05 pm
Cont'd: "...maybe that's a downfall of many people working on the same document. Might lead to confusion, but this proposal..." #nycga #ows
21:05 pm
Cont'd: "..is not making changes as to what we already believe to be pretty clear. It's just saying that in this community, there are.."
21:06 pm
Cont'd: "...working groups, and caucuses, and affinity groups -- like me and my cat are an affinity group -- and there's no change in.."
21:06 pm
Cont'd: "...the amount of power any group of people has." Trish: "I heard what you just said, but in the first sentence of the proposal..."
21:06 pm
Cont'd: "...you agree that this proposal is changing the entire structure?" Shawn shakes his head. "OK, you do not agree with that." #nycga
21:07 pm
Trish cont'd: "So, there's no power grab between the affinity groups? So the GA continues to be the primary decision-making body of #OWS?"
21:07 pm
Cont'd: "And we don't have to deal with the Spokes issue; they took care of that issue last night. So we're talking about limiting GA..."
21:07 pm
Cont'd: "...to 2 days? Is that right?" Shawn notes that the proposal is that we consense on when the GA should convene. #nycga #ows
21:08 pm
Trish: "So you're proposing we forget about the 4 days already established, and discuss how to change it?" Yes. #nycga #ows
21:08 pm
Trish: 'If we decide to meet 2 times a week as Spokes decided to meet 2 times a week, the 2nd part of your proposal says we..." #nycga #ows
21:09 pm
Cont'd: "...look at 3 entities to fill those spaces- an action spokescouncil, a movement spokes, and a soapbox. You want us to consider..."
21:09 pm
Cont'd: "..putting those entities in the days that are available. Is that correct?" A: "It's not created by any person other than this GA...
21:09 pm
Cont'd: "...reading from the proposal, it says 'we empower the GA to create new structures.' Further, 'we offer some recommendations...'"
21:10 pm
Cont'd: "'...about what these structures might look like.'" Next CQ, Daniel: "My Q deals w/ Part 2; in light of the facilitation proposal.."
21:10 pm
Cont'd: "...that'll limit the # of days already, why is it preferable to come w/ a preset assembly structure rather than opening days..."
21:11 pm
Cont'd: "...and bringing additional proposals w/ what to do with them?" A: This proposal just makes recommendations. "You decide." #nycga
21:11 pm
Mike's CQ: "Since I work in Vision and Goals working group w/ Patrick and Sumumba, we're wondering if Action Spokescouncil..." #nycga #ows
21:11 pm
Cont'd: "...would subsume our group, make it go away, if you're planning on turning this into an Action Spokescouncil?" #nycga #ows
21:12 pm
Shawn asks if he understands correctly. "You're asking if one of these groups here would subsume V&G? No; this simply offers..." #nycga #ows
21:12 pm
Cont'd: "...opportunity to have a meeting if they'd like, and provides ideas for how to do so." CQ: "Furthermore, if you want unity..."
21:12 pm
Cont'd: "...and solidarity, then there shouldn't be more than one power source where Vision and Goals is going." #nycga #ows
21:13 pm
Sumumba's CQ: "We have a statement for consensing on Tuesday. But I think he answered it; it's up to this group." #nycga #ows
21:13 pm
Bless: "Without GA, a lot of shit's not going on." So his Friendly Amendment is to have it 3 times a week, not 2 as in the proposal. #nycga
21:14 pm
That's it for CQs; now opening stack for Concerns. Lopi's Concern: "My concern is w/ Part 1; just that the time that we meet for Spokes.."
21:14 pm
Cont'd: "...be changed to Monday and Wednesday, which is what we decided last night at Spokes." So, it's a friendly amendment. #nycga #ows
21:15 pm
Nan's C: "We have a #Spokescouncil that basically silences people, but w/ the GA, after the GA is over, we have new ppl coming in..." #nycga
21:15 pm
Cont'd: "...asking questions -- GA is supposed to be the General Assembly, and as people we talk together and make a decision." #nycga #ows
21:16 pm
Nan's concern is that changing the GA days makes it harder for visitors and new people to plug into #OWS. #nycga #ows
21:16 pm
Shawn: "I hear you; you're saying that by taking away GA we'd be depriving people." Says the proposal seeks to address that, and... #nycga
21:17 pm
Cont'd: ..."proposes that we assemble and call it whatever we want." Notes we can assemble in other communities, as outreach. #nycga #ows
21:17 pm
Nan says: "Are you trying to kill the general assembly by giving it another title? General Assembly needs to remain GA." #nycga #ows
21:17 pm
Lopi's Concern: "I apologize; this is a real concern that I have about having the GA on Mondays and Thursdays and not on Saturday, as..."
21:18 pm
Cont'd: "...many people who work can't make it during the week." Sparrow's Concern: "One of the suggested structures is an action.." #nycsc
21:18 pm
Cont'd: "...Spokes which already exists." Feels this proposal suggests it doesn't exist, when it does, and gives the proposal ownership...
21:19 pm
Cont'd: ...over the action spokescouncil, when it was created by DA for a purpose other than the one outlined in the proposal. #nycga #ows
21:20 pm
Sparrow's FA is "that the entire second half of the proposal be removed." Sean: "I really hear your concerns and have tried to implement..."
21:20 pm
Cont'd: "...them myself, and in conversation w/ others working on the proposal. I have no desire to create or destroy or take over..."
21:20 pm
Cont'd: "...anything; I am just one person. Only the people in this room have the power to do anything. In actuality -- and I have.." #nycga
21:20 pm
Cont'd: "...talked with Sparrow at length about this, and actually, there is no Part 2 about this proposal -- it just says let's talk.."
21:21 pm
Cont'd: "...about what we want to do." So he happily accepts the amendment to remove the non-existent Part 2. Haha. #nycga #ows
21:22 pm
Trish basically said the same thing Sparrow said and accused Shawn of being tricksy when saying that there is no part 2. #nycga #ows
21:23 pm
Shawn apologizes that it made her feel that way, & reads from the proposal and notes it encourages a "discussion leading towards consensus."
21:23 pm
Next concern is that the proposal "seems to indicate that people have the same power as working groups," which he compares to corporations.
21:25 pm
Also, "I never thought an affinity group could vote" like a human, feels this suggests that. A: "That's not what the proposal says." #nycga
21:26 pm
Lorenzo's PoP: "What exactly are we trying to decide with this proposal?" Stairs clarifies, we're trying to consense on part 1. #nycga #ows
21:26 pm
Stairs: "Part 1 is what we're looking for consensus on. Part 2 is not actionable; and an FA has already struck it." #nycga #ows
21:27 pm
So the proposal is only to change when GA meets, basically. Sean: "Written on this paper is a recommendation for when GA might happen..."
21:27 pm
Cont'd: "...but it's up to everyone to decide when." Also, a recommendation for when Spokescouncil happens. #nycga #ows
21:28 pm
Stairs reads the specifics: "That GA convenes Mon and Thurs at 6pm; and SC on Tues and Fri at 6pm." That's the core of the prop. #nycga #ows
21:29 pm
Friendly amendments is next. Shawn: "it's all love here; we're a community. What we're trying to do here is come to consensus, and..."#nycga
21:29 pm
Cont'd: "...that might require stepping back and seeing what you want from this proposal, and that's what this is to do." #nycga #ows
21:30 pm
Cont'd: "It might not come in the form of clarifying questions and concerns and, like, 'I'm fighting you with this proposal.'" #nycga #ows
21:30 pm
The idea is just that we decide where and when assemblies should happen. #nycga #ows
21:31 pm
Stairs: We may have a hard time finishing this process, as security told us we may be arrested if we don't leave 30 minutes before closing?
21:32 pm
Evan went to clarify by talking with the security people. "We have at least 10 more minutes." Will temp check to continue discussion. #nycga
21:33 pm
It's mixed, so we're going to close GA since we won't have time to finish anyway. Shawn: "Consensus, to me, is not something..." #nycga
21:33 pm
Cont'd: "...we can rush, like "let's go everyone do the twinkle up down thing." "I know we won't come to a consensus on it right now..."
21:34 pm
Cont'd: "...even if we say we twinkle came to consensus." He hopes "someday we come to a meaningful consensus as a community..."
21:35 pm
Cont'd: "...about when we should meet and what we should do then." People cheer his speech! OK, that's it for GA tonight! #nycga #ows
21:36 pm
[Thanks fam! Questions, comments, smoints of smasmection, hit me up at @diceytroop. Much love! -Ed.] #nycga #ows