19:22 pm
Hey fam! We're getting going here at tonight's GA! Follow here, @LibertySqGA2, @LibertySqGA3, and @LibertySqGA4! #nycga #ows
19:26 pm
Trade Justice's reportback! Occupy Harlem wants to go protest Obama at the Apollo Theater, Thurs, maybe at 6:30. Updates: nycga.net #nycga
19:27 pm
Also, Rep Bob Turner, who supports mad FT agreements, is holding a fundraiser in Queens!. Protest 12/1, 10:45am, Portofino's Restaurant.
19:27 pm
Strong Women Rules is next. "How are you guys doing tonight? BTW, it was funny watching you do exercise. I want to applaud you for that."
19:28 pm
Next, Jake! The Tweetboat! "We tweet on @OccupyWallStNYC!" They're doing some "direct action tweeting" coming up, re: the Occupied Office.
19:28 pm
"We think that just as some ppl can call to complain abt us on 311, we can call to complain abt Wall Street! Come to mtg Mon, 11am 60 Wall.
19:29 pm
Someone requests a reportback on the office: Jake: "I'm back! I'm not part of the office affinity group, but I did go to the open mtg.."
19:29 pm
Cont'd: "…today at 60 Wall. A few days ago, there was an anonymous complaint filed with 311 saying the office space was housing…" #nycga
19:29 pm
Cont'd: "…a "cult group" that was sleeping there w/ sleeping bags and tents. This is not true." #nycga #ows
19:30 pm
Cont'd: "However, building management, our strong allies the UFT, has still had to take the complaint seriously, and it's led to a lot of.."
19:30 pm
Cont'd: "…conversation between OWS, the office affinity group, and the UFT." Right now access is strictly limited "basically to no one."
19:31 pm
Cont'd: "They're looking at ways to address this in as fair&open a way as possible, hence the open meeting." More: theoccupiedofficenyc.org.
19:31 pm
Bobby from Accounting reports back: "Right now, although there's a lot of money coming into the movement, it's not going into the .."
19:31 pm
Cont'd: "…GA account. So we're not taking in money right now. We spend about 50k a week; have about 170k as yet unallocated." #nycga
19:33 pm
Someone wants to know where the money coming in is going. "It's coming in from other places, not to accounting." Affinity groups. #nycga
19:34 pm
Accounting WG meeting are Friday, 5:30, and also they'll make themselves available for questions on the side now. #nycga #ows
19:34 pm
Structure WG's report back is next. "I'm Patrick from Structure! We meet on Fridays, same as Accounting, 5pm at 60 Wall. Something.." #nycga
19:34 pm
Cont'd: "…that was really popular at our last meeting, which may interest some of you, is having fewer meetings or changing our schedule.."
19:35 pm
Cont'd: "..of meetings throughout the week." Feel it might give us a chance to "have some of the conversations we're not having now." #nycga
19:35 pm
Cont'd: "If you're interested in discussing this further, come to our next meeting, Friday at 5:30." Atrium, 60 Wall Street. #nycga #ows
19:35 pm
Nathan asks for a temperature check on his being one co-facilitator. Stephan asks if he can do the same, positive temp check! #nycga #ows
19:36 pm
Joe asks for a temperature check on his being stacktaker; many up twinkles. @Zoetreuer asks to be timekeeper and greeter-- same same! #nycga
19:36 pm
Stefan will review the hand signals. "I'll start with up twinkles, for agreement, "yes, I feel good, I like it." #nycga #ows
19:37 pm
"Downtwinkles -- no, I don't feel good, I feel pukey, I don't like it. Midtwinkles, I can't decide. One finger pointing up is speak up…"
19:37 pm
Cont'd: "…and one finger raised means you have a factual Point of Information." If someone said something incorrect, you could offer fact.
19:38 pm
Next, a point of process. "We'll get into the process we use; steps that let us be knowledgable and take ownership of a proposal as a..."
19:38 pm
Cont'd: "…community agreement. If you feel we've stepped away from that process, you can put up a point of process." Triangle w/ 2 hands.
19:39 pm
Nathan reminds us that the point of process, as with all signals, should be directed at facilitation, not another person in the GA. #nycga
19:39 pm
A clarifying question, signaled with 1 finger crooked into a C, indicates you have a question that would clarify the proposal for you.#nycga
19:39 pm
Stairs: "First, the presenter will explain their proposal. Then we'll have clarifying questions to make sure you, the body, understands.."
19:40 pm
Cont'd: "..what's being consensed on." Next, concerns; express a concern you have. You can also express a friendly amendment that would...
19:40 pm
Cont'd: "..resolve your concern" and make you supportive of or comfortable with the proposal. #nycga #ows
19:41 pm
Nathan also describes step up, step back, which is a philosophy that reminds us to check our privilege and make space for those who...
19:41 pm
Cont'd: …may have been traditionally disenfranchised or not encouraged to be heard. Using progressive stack is aimed at the same ends.#nycga
19:42 pm
Now, a block. "You can temperature check down and let us know you don't like the proposal, but a block indicates you have an ethical…"#nycga
19:42 pm
Cont'd: "…moral or safety concern with the proposal." Something that you couldn't live w/. A stand aside lets you express a deep personal...
19:42 pm
Cont'd: …concern, but not one that would cause you to need to stop the community from moving forward. #nycga #ows
19:43 pm
Cont'd: When there's a block, the proposer can offer an amendment to resolve the block. If any blocks stand after this, we'll… #nycga #ows
19:43 pm
Cont'd: …move to a 90% vote, called "modified consensus." 90% must consent to the proposal for it to pass. #nycga #ows
19:43 pm
OK, first proposal is from Direct Action and "a bunch of other things!" Stairs: "We've discussed giving 20 minutes to each proposal…" #nycga
19:44 pm
Cont'd: "…and if you want to extend that, you can." OK, sounds good. "How many proposals are there?" #nycga #ows
19:44 pm
Nathan says there are 7. "Every day at 6pm, the facilitation team meets at 60 Wall and proposers can check in w/ the team." #nycga #ows
19:44 pm
That's when the proposals are put in order. Otherwise, they go into a list based on their order on the website. #nycga #ows
19:45 pm
OK, it's Sully and Sparrow! "We're bringing a proposal for an inter-occupy road trip to build solidarity with other northeast occupys!"
19:46 pm
Sully: "We've spent the last several weeks networking with other occupations; have bottom liners for each city and…" #nycga #ows
19:46 pm
Cont'd: "…most cities have gotten consensus on this trip through their GAs." Shadow: "This project came out of DA, but people from…" #nycga
19:47 pm
Cont'd: …a laundry list of other working groups "are actively involved and participating." "We want to strengthen the OWS network by..."
19:48 pm
Cont'd: "…deepening our relationship with these other occupations." Here's the full text: http://t.co/WMLNhUs9 #nycga #ows
19:48 pm
"We're in very explicit communication with these occupys about what's going to happen when we get there," determined by those cities. #nycga
19:48 pm
Sully: "We're structuring this 5 week trip in such a way as to include as many people from OWS that want to participate- instead of…" #nycga
19:49 pm
Cont'd: "…sending people on a 5-week trip, it's split up into 1-week leg." No one will be on for more than 2 weeks. #nycga #ows
19:49 pm
Cont'd: "We're looking to be leaving towards the end of January." Providence, Boston, Northampton, Hudson Valley, Albany, Ithaca, Syracuse..
19:49 pm
Cont'd: …Rochester, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Scranton, Lehigh Valley, Occupy Philly, and then "Occupy Newark before heading back into town."#ows
19:50 pm
Cont'd: "For each city a team of 2 from #OWS and 2 from the host city" are planning events, logistics, etc. Using #interocc to support.
19:50 pm
Cont'd: "The occupations we're visiting have offered a lot for food and housing; this budget is the barebones we need for this trip." #nycga
19:51 pm
Cont'd: "Bus has a capacity for 30 people." "The budget is being determined by consensus by sponsoring WGs, and is obvi…" #nycga
19:51 pm
Cont'd: "…subject to approval by the GA. We're requesting $9450, and asking that we have access to $6000 in case there's a crazy emergency."
19:52 pm
Cont'd: "The budget breaks down as follows: we're renting a converted school bus running biodiesel; there's a van that will shuttle some.."
19:52 pm
Cont'd: "…ppl between different legs." Fuel, maintenance is about $2400; "most food will be provided by other occupations but…" #nycga
19:53 pm
Cont'd: "…want to be able to fill in gaps for ppl on tour, so we're asking for $1500 food budget." Total is $9,450. #nycga #ows
19:54 pm
OK, stacking up clarifying questions. Nan: "You said the bus only holds 30. Will you pick and choose those 30 people?" #nycga #ows
19:54 pm
Sully: "We'll be rotating people in and out; probably about 100 ppl from #OWS will be able to participate. The slots will be allocated by.."
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "…each working group getting a chunk of seats, and they'll decide how to split up the seats." Nan: "How big is the bus?" #nycga #ows
19:55 pm
A: "It's a full-sized school bus." Kyla's CQ: "Re: rental, could we ask if anyone could offer their vehicle for the time?" #nycga #ows
19:55 pm
Sully: "We did do a lot of networking w/ as many as we could who could give us a bus; what we're renting is from ppl we got connected…"
19:55 pm
Cont'd: "…with through networks, and the price we're getting is ridiculously low." 10 to 20 times this, normally. #nycga #ows
19:56 pm
POI from Bobby: "Part of our agreement w/ our fiscal sponsor is that no money coming to us frm thm can go to things that require insurance."
19:57 pm
A: "We're paying a non-profit cooperative who owns this bus. They're paying the insurance. We are not paying the insurance." #nycga #ows
19:57 pm
Bobby says it makes him nervous, though I'm not sure. #nycga #ows
19:57 pm
Library's issue is they're not invited; they're an "important group." Sully: "We'd love to talk to you, sure. The groups are based on.."
19:58 pm
Cont'd: "…feedback we've been getting from the other occupations. We'll work all this out. That's entirely possible." #nycga #ows
19:58 pm
Stairs: "Is it accepted?" Sully: "Yes. And also taking amendment that it all has to pass muster with accounting. "#nycga #ows
19:59 pm
Stairs notes that proposals have passed with contingencies that certain issues must be resolved first. #nycga #ows
19:59 pm
Nan's concerned that her wrkng grp isn't invited. "My first part of my FA that I want to add is I want the bus to be a bigger bus than 30."
20:00 pm
Sully: "We can look into that; I want to stay within the confines of this budget b/c I recognize where we are as a community w/ $ now."
20:00 pm
Sully will look to see if we can get a bigger bus for the same price. "What was the other thing?" Finance, Sully already covered it. #nycga
20:00 pm
Sully: "The reason that some of the details still need to be worked out, but it's important to pass, is that other occupations need…"
20:00 pm
Cont'd: "…things to be set up -- venues, etc -- so we need to tell them very soon whether this is happening or not." #nycga #ows
20:01 pm
Sparrow notes that OccupyPittsburgh has rearranged stuff to accommodate us, so we need to give them a firm answer. #nycga #ows
20:01 pm
Next concern: "I don't think it's a very good use of the limited funds we have, even though it sounds fun and useful." #nycga #ows
20:01 pm
Cont'd: "We can do a lot of this inter occupational organizing w/ conference calls, etc." #nycga #ows
20:02 pm
Sully: "I hear that concern. I believe that direct personal relationships are the basis of the kind of networking we need to do in the.."
20:02 pm
Cont'd: "…region. Recognizing that there are limited funds in this community, we've started process of trying to raise funds on our own..."
20:02 pm
Cont'd: "..we've done a Kickstarter and all of that." Notes they want to use as little of the GA's funds as they possibly can. #nycga #ows
20:04 pm
PoI: "If working groups get outside funding, they have to be affinity groups and not working groups." [I don't think this is true. -Ed.]
20:05 pm
Nan's PoI: "People can actually fundraise the money; but I think they should give some to the GA acct." Stairs: "Not a PoI, but thank you."
20:05 pm
PoI: "As being a part of an affinity livestream team, we are in the process of obtaining a mobile home and converting it into a mobile.."
20:06 pm
Cont'd: "..media center that will travel to different occupations." Nick will be happy to touch bases with proposers on that. #nycga #ows
20:06 pm
Sully reiterates, "This is what we're asking for to tell these occupations yes, we will visit you." "We need to be able to give an answer.."
20:06 pm
Cont'd: "..so we can't leave everything contingent on things that may or may not work out." Reached time; Nathan temp checks 5 more mins.
20:07 pm
Continuing Concerns. "My concern is about the # of ppl. We have seen this proposal before at GA, it seems to me. It didn't pass…" #nycga
20:07 pm
Cont'd: "…doesn't mean it shouldn't pass now." Wondering if all 30 people need to come to make it a success. "Could it be 10?" #nycga #ows
20:08 pm
A: "The budget has nothing to do with the # of people; it would be mostly the same because it's mostly costs of operating the bus." #nycga
20:08 pm
C: "I guess my question is, maybe we don't need a bus, we can use a van and cram 10 instead of 60." #nycga #ows
20:08 pm
Sully: "We're basing our programming decisions based on requests we're getting from occupations." Need array of things to meet requests.
20:09 pm
Cont'd: "It also seemed necessary that we have a large selection of WGs, and can't do that with 10 people." So doesn't accept the FA. #nycga
20:09 pm
Next: "My concern and FA would be that you reduce the amount providing you get the Media person to provide transportation." #nycga #ows
20:09 pm
Cont'd: "At this point, considering the amount of $ we have, $10k seems like a lot." #nycga #ows
20:10 pm
Sully: "So if the FA is that we axe the money for renting the vehicle, if we can use this other vehicle- I accept that." #nycga #ows
20:10 pm
Nan notes that there was another group that we gave money to to travel to different occupations around the country. #nycga #ows
20:10 pm
Cont'd: "Why don't you work with those guys, since they passed already? Why do we need 2 different groups doing the same thing w…" #nycga
20:11 pm
Cont'd: "…two different monies?" Sully notes that the previous Mobile Occupation group proposed something similar that didn't pass. #nycga
20:11 pm
Cont'd: "We're proposing something similar because we think it's important and it hasn't happened yet." #nycga #ows
20:11 pm
Cont'd: Notes walking occupation that came from MobileOcc is doing great. "I think these 2 projects can really complement each other well."
20:12 pm
Nathan suggests we extend time 5 minutes to move forward to consensus! Agreed. "Do we have any standasides?" #nycga #ows
20:12 pm
OK, restating proposal. "The proposal is this funding request for this Direct Action-sponsored movement building road trip and…" #nycga
20:13 pm
Cont'd: "…the 2 friendly amendments are that we get accounting's approval and that we slash rental budget if we can use this vehicle that.."
20:14 pm
cont'd: "…we won't have to pay for." 2 standasides. "Do we have any blocks?" There's one. He says it sound like way too much. #nycga #ows
20:14 pm
Sully: "It's not bussing ppl to a single location; it's bussing people to like 17 different occupations over the course of a month." #nycga
20:14 pm
Cont'd: "So, the reason for the amount of money is because it's a long trip visiting lots of places." #nycga #ows
20:14 pm
Someone gives some PoI, saying that the price is in line with what he would expect it to be. The block is removed. #nycga #ows
20:15 pm
Someone wants to ask what the specific goal is. Stairs: "With all due respect, we've allowed time for friendly amendments, questions, Cs."
20:15 pm
One last call for blocks. None! "So, we have consensus!" Yeah #Occutrip!
20:18 pm
Next, Hermes! "I come here tonight to propose a wrkng grp called GRISP, meaning Group for Realism, Intelligence, Spirituality and Politics."
20:18 pm
Here's the text of Hermes' Grisp Working Group proposal: http://t.co/xnsqyol0 #nycga #ows
20:19 pm
"Through our deepening understanding of these living concepts, and empowered by this knowledge, and its flow, can we save our countries.."
20:20 pm
Cont'd: "..from many influences, attacks and suggested attitudes." "OWS ought to be a credible alternative to failing officials and…" #nycga
20:20 pm
Cont'd: "…institutions with problems they don't comprehend in depth and cannot solve. As new as it might sound, #occupy in many…" #nycga
20:20 pm
Cont'd: "..ways is the only hope for this country and countries around the world against the concealed war of hidden kings who control..."
20:21 pm
Cont'd: "…in many ways, many things, including corporate power and the innocent masses and much more organized entities." #nycga
20:22 pm
OK, opening CQ stack. Jake: "My clarifying question is, on a daily basis, what would this group be doing other than having conversations?"
20:23 pm
A: "This group will have many things to do. It's not conversations, but analysis of fact and documents and organizing trainings for the…"
20:23 pm
Cont'd: "..things that most of us are not prepared at the level of critical thinking. We are not able to understand many subtleties…" #nycga
20:24 pm
Cont'd: "…happening that are concerning us." Now, concerns stack. C: "I feel we have so many working groups right now that…" #nycga #ows
20:24 pm
Cont'd: "…it's diluting our effectiveness. Not this group in particular, but in general." A: "This group is for the big picture." #nycga
20:24 pm
Cont'd: "This group knows most ppl are tangled in the daily operations and don't see the big picture. I said we need to be a credible.."
20:25 pm
Cont'd: "…alternative. Why? Because politicians don't understand what's happening. But thank God, in #OWS there are some ppl who…" #nycga
20:25 pm
Cont'd: "…know what's going on even though some of us don't seede the big picture. This group is addressing the big picture." #nycga #OWS
20:26 pm
.@jdegroot "My concern follows my CQ. I like trainings and convo you want to promote. But we already have forums where these conversations..
20:26 pm
Cont'd: "…can take place such as Think Tank and Vision and Goals." A: "I'm already in relation with those groups. What I'm talking about.."
20:26 pm
Cont'd: "…here is special." For example, spirituality is being unaddressed by those groups. "Most of us are not aware, and this poisons us."
20:27 pm
Cont'd: "Most of us are asleep and don't understand that many of the problems here come from this level." #nycga #ows
20:27 pm
Cont'd: "How most of us become aware of it is one aspect of what this group will clarify." That'll be the concrete work of the grp. #nycga
20:28 pm
Next C: "I think this workgroup has a potential to philosophically and spiritually attempt to steer the movement. That is dangerous and.."
20:28 pm
Cont'd: "…breaks the horizontal leadership of the movement." A: "The group is very far from doing that. It will address facts happening.."
20:28 pm
Cont'd: "…at many levels that are affecting the movement in many ways." Nathan notes we have 7 more minutes. Closing Concerns stack. #nycga
20:29 pm
C/CQ: "Is this group asking for any $? It sounds like the kind of group that would be very useful, but doesn't need funds." #nycga #ows
20:29 pm
A: "Money will never be our concern; maybe if you have documents that you'd like to be distributed to ppl, we'd like to help w/ that."
20:32 pm
Someone asks if WGs need to be approved. Stairs explains that as of recently all new groups now need to be approved by the GA. #nycga #ows
20:33 pm
Next: "What is the purpose for this group?" A: "It's to give #OWS the tools it needs to be able to move forward." #nycga #ows
20:34 pm
OK, that's it for concerns. Opening Friendly Amendment stack. Dallas' FA is first. #nycga #ows
20:34 pm
Dalls: "Your acronym kind of stinks!" Suggests change from GRISP to GRASP, Intelligence to Awareness. #nycga #ows
20:35 pm
Nan's C: "You say you want to give back to #OWS; how will you do that? Are you going to basically raise funds?" #nycga #ows
20:35 pm
Stairs notes 2 PoPs. Hermes: "It's not about money." Stairs asks Nan if there was an amendment in her statement. #nycga #ows
20:37 pm
Nan says she wants to know how the group will "give back to #OWS." Temp checking extending for 5 more... "that's overwhelmingly negative..."
20:37 pm
Cont'd: "...so we're going to have to table the proposal." Many objects, wanting to move to Consensus. #nycga #ows
20:39 pm
OK, we're moving forward to consensus. "Do we have any standasides?" 1, based on uncomfortability with access to petty cash. #nycga #ows
20:40 pm
Nan's standaside is because she doesn't understand the mission of the working group. Sage suggests an amendment to not give daily budget.
20:41 pm
"Do we have any blocks?" Yes, one block. They want the proposal written down to be more clear. So, we'll move to modified consensus. #nycga
20:43 pm
Someone PoPs to suggest that the block really isn't a moral, ethical, or safety concern. Stairs notes we currently have no process to...
20:43 pm
Cont;d: ...challenge blocks, other than to move to modified consensus. Many are trying to explain to her what a block is. #nycga #ows
20:46 pm
OK, so we're moving to modified (90%) consensus, asking first for the total # of people: 26 participating. Now, ppl against? More than 3...
20:46 pm
So, the proposal didn't meet modified consensus. People suggest that he "do it anyway!" "Do your thing, man!" #nycga #ows
20:50 pm
Here's the next proposal: http://t.co/z5mr7HWD #nycga #ows
20:51 pm
This proposal is for a working group to advocate against dependency: "Occupy Dependency working group." The request is not for $. #nycga
20:53 pm
"45 million of Americans are dependent," the Proposer says. "We need to establish prevention program to stop new users, from age 9." #nycga
20:54 pm
Someone calls him out, out of process- "That's a crock; you sound like them." Sage joins in: this shoulda been higher on agenda. #nycga #ows
20:56 pm
...frankly, his thick Russian accent is a communications problem for a lot of us, I think. #nycga #ows
20:56 pm
CQ: "I want to say I think what you're doing is very admirable, but what is the actual proposal you're bringing to the GA?" #nycga
20:57 pm
A is that he wants to start a working group. To change the system of services provided to those w/ chemical dependency. #nycga #ows
20:59 pm
CQ: "Are you trying to form a working group around drug prevention?" Very confused. Proposer again asserts drug abusers are everywhere.
21:00 pm
"Our kids are going through this problem. We need to create a new system. We have this project." Stairs tries to interpret... #nycga #ows
21:01 pm
Nan's CQ: "You say you've been doing this for 10 years -- why do you want to join #OWS? Is it a 10-step or 12-step program?" #nycga #ows
21:02 pm
A: "We came here because our own voice was not loud. We've lost time; millions are effected. We're large, but still not big enough." #nycga
21:02 pm
A: "Only us, free of drug addition, can help those people in their struggles. It's not a life, it's a real hell." #nycga #ows
21:03 pm
Moving to Concerns. Stairs suggests ppl make FAs for their concerns. C: "B/c you're already established, how will your integration into..."
21:03 pm
Cont'd: "...occupy go w/o isolating people? How will you be a part of the #occupy movement?" #nycga #ows
21:04 pm
A: "To move these things forward at the national level, we need your voice. Our government will pay attention, need to change." #nycga #ows
21:05 pm
Nan's C: "Will you be a working group that gets $100/day or an affinity group that's already established?" #nycga #ows
21:06 pm
PoP: "If they want to be an affinity group, we dion't have to continue this conversation." Nathan reminds them WGs can't get outside funds.
21:06 pm
Stairs suggests that we support the work they're doing, but if they're not going to be a working group, they can withdraw the proposal.
21:06 pm
They agree! Stefan asks for a temp check to say whether we support what they're doing. Uptwinkles, for the most part. #nycga #ows
21:09 pm
OK, their proposal has a 2nd pt, which is about Occupy Condos (see the text I linked earlier). They're describing that now. #nycga #ows
21:09 pm
n, [ ;
21:15 pm
This will also be an affinity group, so we'll move on. Some folks want to skip to the spending freeze, but Stairs suggests we stay w/ order
21:16 pm
Next, the Anarchist Education WG. "I have a lot of ppl who want to be involved, but don't have time or money." #nycga #ows
21:16 pm
Cont'd: "If we had a budget, I could bring in ppl from MOVE org, Black Panthers, etc." #nycga #ows
21:18 pm
Here's the proposal: http://t.co/WnjVHznS #nycga #ows
21:19 pm
Some folks balk at his suggestion we give speakers a "salary." Proposer: "Well, you'll give $100 to the cigarette WG." OOOH. #nycga #ows
21:19 pm
"We want to do some political education of these movements before they all die off." Wants Legal to help document these issues. #nycga #ows
21:21 pm
"There are political prisoners all over this country tt nd to be supported, IMO, by eductinl encmpmnts." Asks if we know what COINTELPRO is.
21:22 pm
So, he wants money to pay stipends, make fliers, etc. POI: "This sounds almost exactly like the training DA is developing." #nycga #ows
21:23 pm
A: "This is an educational group." Now opening stack on CQs. CQ: "What does this have to do with us, and how does it move us forward?"#nycga
21:24 pm
A: "If you don't understand what the government is doing...I want them to work with Legal. If you want to oppose the gov't and create..."
21:24 pm
Cont'd: "..the society we want, we need to study the government." Notes #OWS didn't invent democracy by itself. #nycga #ows
21:26 pm
PoI: "The NLG/Legal are also wrkng on smthing similar." CQ: "Why should anyone in any working group be getting paid, especially anarchists?"
21:26 pm
A: "They have to take a day off. No one will take a day off for free." Some giggles from group. #nycga #ows
21:28 pm
Someone asks the Legal point of info-er if they're working to document our unlawful arrests. Yes, they are. Someone asks if person he...
21:29 pm
Cont'd: ..wants to pay for teaching services is a teacher. "No, he's someone who I think needs to be heard by a large amount of people."
21:30 pm
CQer replies, "I think there are many here with experience who are sharing knowledge and skills w/ people without receiving payment."#nycga
21:32 pm
Next: "I just want to say, there is some kind of inherent arrogance in yr proposal. It's about important info, but if you could..." #nycga #
21:33 pm
Cont'd: "...reconfigure it so that it is less biased, it could be great, but for now I don't think it's ready or good for the movement."
21:33 pm
The concern was aimed at the calling it "anarchist' and asking for payment for things people have been doing for free. #nycga #ows
21:34 pm
Jeff's C: "This is a great proposal, but I'm concerned it won't pass because of the language you're using." #nycga #ows
21:34 pm
Cont'd: "RE: his boss not liking him taking a day off work; we use money for actions and different things. It's a volunteer movement..."
21:35 pm
Cont'd: "...but at the same time, I think Fred Hampton's son should come here. So, I think it's the way you're wording it." #nycga #ows
21:35 pm
P: "There are ppl who I think have asked for ridiculous working groups. I.e., someone asked for money for a tobacco WG. That's ridiculous."
21:36 pm
Proposer wants to show history of movements. "I want to show historical documents, pamphlets, background. It's not about give him a free.."
21:36 pm
Cont'd: "..ride, it's that economically he can't come to do anything for free. Is that better?" #nycga #ows
21:37 pm
Next: "If this guy feels he has something to say that we'd benefit from, he'll come here on his own." #nycga #ows
21:37 pm
Stairs suggests he's hearing an amendment in these concerns that we'd be behind him if we weren't going to pay for ppl to be involved.
21:38 pm
The proposer accepts that amendment. "How much would that reduce it to?" A: "$1000." Next concern: "We haven't seen an itemized budget.."
21:38 pm
Cont'd: "...listing where every dollar will be spent." A: "I can address that, but in order to do this, I won't have every penny itemized.."
21:39 pm
Cont'd: "..right away. In order to do this, I need to know how much money I can get. How many fliers,, what I can do for these people."
21:39 pm
We're out of time, but we're done w/ Qs, Concerns, and FAs (no one has anymore), so we're tempchecking moving to consensus. #nycga #ows
21:41 pm
No consensus on continuing, so the proposal is tabled. Next up: The spending freeze proposal! #nycga #ows
21:41 pm
Jason: "I brought this proposal last week, about freezing #OWS spending. I brought this for many reasons; one is that so many ppl talk..."
21:42 pm
Cont'd: "...about problems w/ the way we spend money at #OWS." Many solutions to this. Wants to freeze all funds except bail funds... #nycga
21:43 pm
Cont'd: ...until we re-occupy. Notes there are lots of conflicting friendly amndments he's gotten, ranging frm freeze some to end petty cash
21:44 pm
"So, I brought it back to this (the core proposal). I told ppl I'd bring it back in a week. Here's what I came up with..." #nycga #ows
21:47 pm
Here's the text, although there are some major differences as presented tonight: http://t.co/cJWMJ1Ay
21:49 pm
The proposal is to freeze funds until we have a "financial assembly" on Feb 4th, and then once a week thereafter, and that assembly...
21:49 pm
Cont'd: ...feels we've agreed as a movement what to do with our funds. (Some disruption now, but we're resuming.) #nycga #ows
21:51 pm
Jason also suggested he could hear a friendly amendment to exempt funds allocated for food, housing, and metrocards. #nycga #ows
21:52 pm
Jason: "This is so we can talk about the reasons we're here, and not money." Notes it's going very quickly. #nycga #ows
21:52 pm
"We need to check ourselves and say, 'why do we do this? what is this mvement for?'" Also wants to make precedent of bringing dissent to GA.
21:53 pm
"It's important to do so we can solve problems, by bringing proposals, and using consensus to change it until it works." #nycga #ows
21:55 pm
"I'm ready to come back again and again until we reach consensus on this. Thank you." #nycga #ows
21:58 pm
Jason suggests that maybe we can have a short discussion stack, before moving to consensus. Robert suggests this goes against CT Butler's...
21:58 pm
...suggestions, but Nathan temp checks it with the GA and the GA agrees. #nycga #ows
22:00 pm
Here's the proposal, sorry about the pic quality: http://t.co/j0fsOY1L #nycga #ows
22:00 pm
Chris is first on stack. He feels that though we have issues w/ how we deal w/ money, cutting out services we depend on is not the answer.
22:01 pm
Chris refers to the FA to exempt food, housing, metrocards, but still feels that a blanket freeze for everything else is reckless. #nycga
22:01 pm
Chris says he suggested to Jason that a process of determining which expenses are pertinent or not first would be better. #nycga #ows
22:02 pm
Next: "I know you don't like that the GA has become about spending $ instead of activism, but why not just let us spend it all?" #nycga #ows
22:03 pm
Next, Bobby, Accounting: "We have about $170k unallocated, and spending $50k a week. So conservatively we're broke in a couple of weeks!"
22:03 pm
Cont'd: "So, let's talk about what we want to do with what we have left, before we completely run out." #nycga #ows
22:04 pm
Dallas notes that other organizations are totally broke and it's not a big deal; mentions Rainbow Family that operates on trading economy.
22:04 pm
Sage: "Very soon, we'll go broke. We should practice something before you do it. If we freeze, we can consider it as practice." #nycga
22:05 pm
Sage notes that disruptive person before, Maximus, asked why housing and food is going to "derelicts." "If that's true, it might be b/c..."
22:06 pm
Cont'd: "...are not focused on our housing. If there's no light, there'll be mold." "There are so many ways ppl can participate in #OWS.."
22:06 pm
Cont'd: "...right now, it somewhat devalues what we're doing." Suggests this will cause a focusing to occur. #nycga #ows
22:07 pm
OK, moving to clarifying questions, since we hit our second time extension on that. #nycga #ows
22:08 pm
CQ: "Are you looking to keep Metrocards & Housing and Food out of the freeze, and how much is that?" A: "Would accept as a FA." #nycga #ows
22:08 pm
Haywood's POI: "Aside from sending money to other occupations, almost all of our money goes to those things." #nycga #ows
22:09 pm
Patrick: "I think there's a lot of support for what you're proposing, though maybe not as stated. I think we should freeze after 2 weeks..."
22:09 pm
Cont'd: "..until such time that GA and Spokescouncil come up with a budget, which is the conversation we haven't been having." #nycga #ows
22:10 pm
Stairs: "Is there an amendment there?" A: "Yes, do housing, metrocards, food for 2 weeks, freeze afterwards until we consense on a budget."
22:11 pm
Next CQ: "There's some spending we've already agreed to on a monthly basis; i.e. hosting website. Would we renege on commitment to pay?"
22:12 pm
A: "Yes." CQ: "So our website would go offline?" A: "That would be part of it, yes." POI: "Currently, WGs cannot accept outside funding."
22:13 pm
Haywood: "They are allowed to raise money outside of the GA; they just can't get money from GA also." #nycga #ows
22:13 pm
Jake asks where that came from. Many people not sure. Next, Evan: "Is there vision for how we're going to fundraise moving forward.." #nycga
22:14 pm
Cont'd: "...sitting on this money we have, is there a strategy for that moving forward?" A: "That's not part of this proposal." #nycga #ows
22:15 pm
No more CQs, now opening stack on Concerns. "If we waited to do the freeze, wouldn't we be broke anyway?" A: "Yes, it seems that's true."
22:16 pm
Jeff's C: "I'm concerned this mvmnt is spending money on things that perhaps don't further our cause. Also, accountability. But..." #nycga
22:16 pm
Cont'd: "...I came here to protest corruption. But not that our economy exists. I have a feeling we're having a problem spending money.."
22:17 pm
Cont'd: "...but if we just freeze money, that makes us no better than those bankers. How you use $ is a difficult challenge and that's..."
22:17 pm
Cont'd: "..exactly what we're here to protest. And if we just get rid of money, we duck that challenge." #nycga #ows
22:18 pm
Jason says that's exactly the basis, that we stop spending until we decide on how exactly we want to do it. #nycga #ows
22:18 pm
C: "If we stop funding, services in place won't be available. If we freeze funds, you're telling ppl in churches, "gee, you're SOL." #nycga
22:19 pm
Cont'd: "These people have come in good faith. Maybe a better way is to say, 'let's raise some funds.'" #nycga #ows
22:20 pm
OK, we're out of time- tempchecking continuing. Nathan: "That's very mixed. What happened previously is we had..." #nycga #ows
22:21 pm
Cont'd: "...gone through the process on the last proposal, so we were able to just wrap up over time." "How abt 5 minutes?" OK. #nycga #ows
22:21 pm
C: " I see a lot of value in this; obviously the money is going quickly. Very concerned about cutting off money that has been allocated..."
22:22 pm
Cont'd: "At that point, I'd probably block, b/c you have to keep momentum of movement going."Acknowledges need for org. dev. tho. #nycga
22:23 pm
Suggests we amend to cut off the $100/day budget, and keep spending current commitments, don't enter into new commitments. #nycga #ows
22:23 pm
A: "Concern is that I don't actually know what all the commitments are-- many here don't." Accounting will weigh in. #nycga #ows
22:24 pm
POI: "We have a # of outstanding bills, some services, but need to wire money to Oakland. You'd have us renege on those promises?" #nycga
22:25 pm
Jason asks us if we like the amendment to exempt current obligations -- we do, so he accepts. #nycga #ows
22:25 pm
Someone from Occupy Chicago definitely agrees w/ need for budget, is somewhat appalled at WGs' $100/day budget. #nycga #ows
22:26 pm
Nan's concern is that medical isn't accounted for, noting they do a lot of important work. "You're cutting ppl who will get sick..." #nycga
22:27 pm
Cont'd: "...especially in Winter." Suggests we keep half of the medical budget. Finance notes they get $2k a week. #nycga #ows
22:29 pm
Next, Bobby. He suggests we let Housing put one more proposal forward on Monday. Jake, next, likes financial assembly idea. #nycga #ows
22:30 pm
Jake: "Let's have the financial assembly like, really soon! Like 2 days! Repeatedly coming to GA, there's too many variables." #nycga #ows
22:30 pm
Cont'd: "Let's just start budgeting right now." FA is to start financial assembly very very soon, within few days, not freeze money. #nycga
22:31 pm
Jason likes idea of moving financial meeting earlier, but is concerned b/c he'll be in DC for a week, protesting Congress. #nycga #ows
22:33 pm
After some parsing, we decide the FA is to table the proposal and call for a financial GA within the week. Jason doesn't take the FA. #nycga
22:34 pm
Patrick suggests that we freeze the spending for 2 weeks, but allow essential items (housing, transport, food) and things already approved.
22:35 pm
POI: "I think it was just confirmed that if we do accept that amendment then we're broke in 2 weeks and it's moot." #nycga #ows
22:35 pm
Bobby notes that the other FA would prevent food from being cut off; another FA would let housing make another proposal. #nycga #ows
22:36 pm
Bobby also notes we have a fundraising group that hasn't brought much back to the GA yet, but we should help out! #nycga #ows
22:36 pm
Jason feels like the amendments he's already accepted have resolved that. Notes that concerns should come out of FA. #nycga #ows
22:38 pm
Jason feels like, yeah, "let's find a way to have a comprehensive budget, we've already said, keeping food, housing, medical in half.."
22:41 pm
Cont'd: "...and pre-existing things." Patrick restates his amendment and this time Jason excepts. Jake is confused; FAs have contradicted.
22:43 pm
Jason reviews: "We'll freeze all spending except food, half of medical, housing (1 more proposal), transportation, things already.." #nycga
22:43 pm
Cont'd: "...approved -- and working towards a financial assembly starting early next week to make a budget, discuss fundraising, and.."
22:45 pm
Cont'd: "...our vision for how we want to spend $." Jason is getting humorously frustrated as ppl try to help. "Dammit! Stop saying things!"
22:46 pm
We're out of time again, Stairs asks how we feel about extending time again. "That feels very positive." Continuing on... #nycga #ows
22:46 pm
There's some confusion as to whether we have already done FAs; feels like it morphed from concerns. Cold GA brain in effect. #nycga #ows
22:47 pm
Robert asks when this takes effect. "Right now." He's concerned about his reimbursement, but Jason reminds that is excepted. #nycga #ows
22:48 pm
Someone asks to clarify which medical group -- both of them, is the answer. #nycga #ows
22:49 pm
Haywood's FA: "I'd like to withdraw cut from medics; feel it's wrong to cut their pre-approved budget in half w/ no medics here." Accepted.
22:49 pm
So, both medical groups keep their budgets. Darryl suggests he thinks we're making this hard by not having line items in front of us. #nycga
22:50 pm
Daryl's FA: "Let's just cut off proposals til end of week for >$1000, put full freeze on end of week for $100/day, etc etc..." #nycga #ows
22:50 pm
Cont'd: "...and in the coming week, accounting will provide a line item record of what we're spending on." #nycga #ows
22:51 pm
So, FA is to table all proposals over $1000, at the end of the week, get info frm Accounting, then get budget w/in one more week or, freeze.
22:51 pm
Bobby from Accounting suggests that data is already set up; we just need "something like a financial assembly" to review that data. #nycga
22:52 pm
.@occupymusician notes we've been outside in cold for 4 hours. "I don't think we can have a process to resolve this now." Ice cream brain!
22:53 pm
Nathan also notes that given the # of amendments, it sometimes means that a proposal needs to be more hashed out. #nycga #ows
22:54 pm
Last on FA stack: Nan! "You mentioned you're going to put the freeze now; my concern is we've got ppl who have outstanding receipts..."
22:55 pm
Cont'd: "...if this is freezing now, people won't get to be reimbursed." Also notes Occupy Copy and Screenprinting Guild rely on $s.
22:56 pm
FA is to work w/ Outreach. Jason suggests that receipts w/ dates before this be considered expenditures before the freeze. #nycga #ows
22:57 pm
Restating proposal: "Freeze $ now, except funds already approved, including continual spending, medical, per diems of past receipts..."
22:58 pm
Cont'd: "..food budget, metrocards, and housing gets to bring their next proposal." And we'll have a financial assembly early next week...
22:58 pm
"...which will talk about setting a comprehensive budget, and the freeze continues until FA meeting, which needs to have ppl from each WG."
22:59 pm
Stairs asks how we feel about moving forward to consensus! We want to! We're cold! #nycga
23:00 pm
Any standasides? 4. Robert stands aside, noting that he feels we're echoing the world situation. "Belttightening in a crisis," down sparkle.
23:01 pm
Someone else stands aside, noting that an assembly won't necessarily solve questions of vision. Any blocks? "No blocks?" CONSENSUS! #nycga
23:01 pm
Haywood: "Wait - this fucking passed? Holy shit!" Hahahah people are dancing. OH WAIT THERE WAS A BLOCK! #NYCGA #OWS
23:02 pm
Elizabeth is blocking b/c she feels we're stressed out, it's cold -- "we're not processing this. It's not fair to the process." #nycga #ows
23:03 pm
Elizabeth drops block, tho, once given the chance to ask if ppl think the process was fair, and they seem to say it was. CONSENSUS! #nycga
23:05 pm
OK! That's it for tonight! Closing the GA! After announcements! John, Occupy Oakland: "It's great to be here, even tho it's hella cold!"
23:05 pm
Cont'd: "We never get this cold in Oakland. Also, thank you for your support in the past, and we want to invite you if you're able to..."
23:05 pm
Cont'd: "...join us and other west coast occupies in shutting down the unloading of the EGT ship in WA when that happens." #nycga #ows
23:07 pm
No more announcements! OK, that's it fam! Questions, comments, concerns, hit me up at @diceytroop! Word! #nycga #ows