19:18 pm
#OWS General Assembly is starting now! Follow here, @LibertySqGA2, @LibertySqGA3, and @LibertySqGA4 for the entire feed. #nycga #ows
19:18 pm
Sully and someone whose name I don't know are facilitating tonight, so we'll call them Stairs for short! Long story. #nycga #ows
19:18 pm
We have two agenda items, but beforehand we'll hear working group reportbacks! #nycga #ows
19:19 pm
First, a "quick reminder of how our Consensus process works. What we're doing here when we're hearing proposals…" #nycga #ows
19:19 pm
Sully yields to folks who just donated 100 spring rolls and are about to pass them out! Thanks fam! #nycga #ows
19:19 pm
Sully: "When we make decisions here, we're not just using model of majority rule that many are familiar w/. We want to make decisions.."
19:20 pm
Cont'd: "…that empower minority voices among the group, and not end up with necessarily something we all want to do, but what we can.."
19:20 pm
Cont'd: "…live w/ as a community." We use a collaborative process to create the final proposal, and then "we move to consensus." #nycga #ows
19:21 pm
Cont'd: "When we do that, you can stand aside, saying you don't agree but won't prevent consensus. Or, if you have a moral…" #nycga #ows
19:21 pm
Cont'd: "…ethical or safety concern for the movement as a whole, you can block." Blocks are very serious, like you couldn't live w/ it.
19:22 pm
Here's a guide to the other hand signals that Sully is introducing now: http://t.co/VHmHwQl9 #nycga #ows
19:23 pm
Working group reportbacks! Nan's first. "Later on, I have an emergency proposal on the table; I'll need your help. There was a situation..."
19:24 pm
Cont'd: "..that took place in housing at West 86th," says it's not fair and GA needs to know about it. #nycga #ows
19:24 pm
Nan is discussing last night's issue at Spokescouncil where Women Occupying Wall Street suggested Housing mis-handled a safety issue. #nycga
19:26 pm
Next: "After the eviction, I went home, to where I grew up, in Tampa, for a couple of weeks, only to find they had a small and very fierce..
19:26 pm
Cont'd: "…occupation. I took part in a couple of actions w/ them. They disrupted a Mitt Romney fundraiser of which I was forcibly…"#nycga
19:26 pm
Cont'd:"..thrown out a door! They also targeted an accounting firm that funnels millions of $ thru PACs and SuperPACs, pointing out.."
19:26 pm
Cont'd: "…what's really wrong w/ campaign finance. I've also done 2 protests against NDAA since returning to NYC…" #nycga #ows
19:27 pm
Cont'd: "…one at Obama campaign headquarters and one as street theater. They're also planning something for #J21." #nycga #ows
19:27 pm
"That brings me to my proposal. Because they're being harassed, and have had the largest arrest in Florida history trying to get an..."
19:27 pm
Cont'd: "…occupation going. They had many arrested and spent all their money on bail. All their equipment was confiscated more than once.."
19:28 pm
Cont'd: "..by the police. Now, someone has given them a private space, and signed it over; they have full right to use it 24/7 as long.."
19:28 pm
Cont'd: "…as they want! So they have tents, and a kitchen, and a medical tent, and they're preparing for the RNC, which comes to Tampa..."
19:28 pm
Cont'd: "…this summer! So many of them were here on NYE, and they want to invite anyone who wants to go there to camp under a palm tree.."
19:29 pm
Cont'd: "..for the Winter, or as long as they want to be involved. Anyone involved in WGs there is welcome to their tents and food.."
19:29 pm
cont'd: "…as long as they want to stay. However, in order for them to have a big arrest able action on the FL primaries, they need to..."
19:29 pm
Cont'd: "..replenish a lot of the $ they lost on bail and from confiscations. They've had some fundraisers, made $300 and $100 on things.."
19:30 pm
Cont'd: "…but it's not enough for January 31st in a city where they threaten to revoke bail, throw you in jail for 3 months, til your..."
19:30 pm
cont'd: "…arraignment on trespassing charges. So I propose we provide them $1500 for bail and any equipment they need to make their…"#nycga
19:30 pm
Cont'd: "…camp solid, and $500 to help any w/ housing issues in NYC to get there." #nycga #ows
19:31 pm
Opening CQ stack. CQ: "What would be the means of transportation?" A: "Depends how many want to go. If it's 2, Expedia.com, $90 jetblue."
19:31 pm
Cont'd: "If it's more than that, I personally have a court date in Tampa Feb 6. We could rent a van; I'll drive them there." #nycga #ows
19:31 pm
Nan: "My question I have for you: is $2000 going to be enough? Florida is my home state. I have a love and hate for Florida. I will…"#nycga
19:32 pm
Cont'd: "…support a friendly amendment later on. My question for you, if the $2000 is not enough, will you come back to the GA and ask more?
19:32 pm
A: "No to the 2nd part, b/c I don't think we need to pay for everything for anybody, but I think it's important that we seed occupations.."
19:32 pm
Cont'd: "…in parts of the country where activism is not the norm. For this to be happening in places like Tampa Florida, is important..."
19:33 pm
Cont'd: "…to support. But they need to raise their own money as well. The second part, do I think $2000 is enough for 1/31? Yes."#nycga #ows
19:33 pm
Cont'd: "Because, unlike the last time they were arrested, they now, as of the last few days, have the NLG in Tampa. I think that.." #nycga
19:33 pm
Cont'd: "…makes a big difference." CQ: "If any wrkng groups or individuals want to donate after GA passes, will you guys accept it?" #nycga
19:34 pm
Sully PoPs: "When we do CQs, we're really looking for questions to clarify the proposal itself." General info can be exchanged face to face.
19:35 pm
Someone: "Listening to you guys, I went and took a house in an abandoned building. They locked me up! The first charge was burglary…"
19:35 pm
Lauren POIs, "This space is a safer place to occupy." Won't have the kinds of issues of eviction. #nycga #ows
19:36 pm
Next, Aaron's CQ: "The $500 for occupiers to travel there- is that a set amount, or up to?" #nycga #ows
19:36 pm
A: "It's not even per, it's total." CQ is satisfied. Skylar's CQ: "Hi! I'm from @OccupyTampa! When it comes to $ for bail, I know that.."
19:36 pm
Cont'd: "..as ppl get arrested, the bail goes up. Over half of everyone arrested at @OccupyTampa so far will have their court dates.."#nycga
19:37 pm
Cont'd: "…finished before the DA on the 31st, which means bail will go down." That's all, I guess it was a point of information, not a CQ.
19:37 pm
OK, no more CQs, now stacking concerns and friendly amendments. "My friendly amendment, and I just want to make clear that I fully.."
19:37 pm
Cont'd: "…support this proposal, is that the $ given to Tampa would be able to be given back to the NYCGA as bail $ is given back after.."
19:37 pm
Cont'd: "…the arraignments. Because I know that bail money is only temporary." #nycga #ows
19:38 pm
A: "I would say the way it worked on December 1st is that they didn't have enough $, even w/ several thou, to bail everybody out."#nycga#ows
19:38 pm
Cont'd: "..so they had to use bondsmen, which they won't get back. That may well be the case again on 1/31, b/c Tampa's very working class..
19:39 pm
Cont'd: "…foreclosure capital of the country -- really, really poor. So, I'd be willing to make a little bit of tht repayable, but not all."
19:39 pm
"How much?" someone asks. A: "500." Next on stack, Steven. "Hi, this is a concern -- the concern that I have is that the Tampa GA.."#nycga
19:39 pm
cont'd: "…should be asking for this. So, that's my question as well. Has there been consensus by the GA on asking #OWS for this?"#nycga #ows
19:40 pm
A: "The short answer is no. The medium answer is that more than 40 ppl have emailed me saying they really want to do this on the 31st…"
19:40 pm
Cont'd: "…I'm the only person they know in NY -- help." Nan's FA: "Since we have passed $100,000 for bail, why don't you take that $ frm..."
19:40 pm
Cont'd: "…the bail? The reason is when that bail fund as added, there was a friendly amendment added that other places could take…"
19:41 pm
Cont'd: "…money out for bail?" POI, Jail support: "Tho accounting brought the bail proposal, I was present for it; that FA was turned down."
19:41 pm
But Nan still wants to try to take it from the bail money. "No, that's not the previous" consensus on that bail money. #nycga #ows
19:42 pm
Zack: "Hi- It seems like my recollection, we recently gave $25,000 to #OO, but it may have actually been more ppl from #OWS than ppl..."
19:42 pm
Cont'd: "…from #OO on the proposal team, and then after the proposal was made, I remember other members of #OWS informing me…" #nycga #ows
19:42 pm
Cont'd: "…that #OO did not reach consensus on the GA when this subject came up, and I felt it was a little out-of-process." #nycga #ows
19:43 pm
Cont'd: "I support giving $ to other occupations, but it seems to be… it makes sense, if the GA would have consensed upon it in Tampa..."
19:43 pm
Cont'd: "…I'd feel better about it. Is that possible?" Accounting's POI: "My name's Haywood, I'm with Accounting. We usually don't..."
19:43 pm
Cont'd: "…vote on these things, so I'm just going to give a POI: in accounting, before we cut checks, we need a copy of GA minutes or..."
19:44 pm
Cont'd: "…video of where a GA has accepted a proposal." They need to see what their GA said exactly. #nycga #ows
19:45 pm
Sully: "Many people are talking at once, which is confusing to me as a facilitator!" Hahah. They're calling Tampa… #nycga #ows
19:45 pm
CQer clarifies that a phone call won't quite suffice; they need to bring a proposal to their GA. #nycga #ows
19:46 pm
Sully suggests a friendly amendment: the money will only go out once Tampa's GA has agreed on it and provided proof to OWS Accounting.#nycga
19:46 pm
I think they accepted, but Haywood is clarifying… A: "My view is if this passes, you wouldn't cut a check unless we can give you the..."
19:47 pm
Cont'd: "…minutes from the Tampa GA." Haywood sounds unconvinced, but admits there's no standing rule against doing it this way. #nycga #ows
19:47 pm
OK, that's it for concerns/friendly amendments. Stairs: "At this point, we'll check -- can you restate the proposal w/ FAs?" #nycga #ows
19:48 pm
Proposer: "I'm proposing we provide $2000 total, $1500 to be used for direct action bail, the other $500 for transportation for anyone..."
19:48 pm
Cont'd: "…who wants to get there, and won't be used at all if no one goes. And the money won't be released to Tampa unless passed by..."
19:48 pm
Cont'd: "…there GA, and the minutes are provided to accounting. And $500 of the bail $ will come back to #OWS after the court dates."#nycga
19:49 pm
Sully: "Now that the proposal's been stated, I'd like to get a quick sense of how people are feeling about the proposal…" #nycga #ows
19:49 pm
Sully: "Given that we were very positive on that, I'm going to go ahead and test for consensus!" Asks for standasides… 3. #nycga #ows
19:49 pm
Sully: "And now I'll ask, are there any blocks to this proposal?" Someone asks that he explains what a stand aside is. #nycga #ows
19:50 pm
Sully: "A standaside says you disagree w/ this proposal, but are willing to stand back & let the group do what it wants to do." #nycga #OWS
19:50 pm
One stand aside wants to explain: "I think it's a humble amount of money, and I support it. But I think it's a reasonable process to wait…"
19:51 pm
Cont'd: "..until they ask for it." OK, and now Sully asks: "Are there any blocks?" "OK, given there were no blocks and only a few.." #nycga
19:52 pm
Cont'd: "…standasides, this proposal has reached consensus!" Cheers. #nycga #ows
19:52 pm
OK, next proposal by Jason Ahmadi. "I have a proposal to freeze all spending of the #OWS fund. What I'd like for this proposal is that.."
19:52 pm
Cont'd: "…we spent 15 to 20 minutes to have breakout group discussion so that we can listen to each other and talk to each other.." #nycga
19:52 pm
Cont'd: "…about this proposal. And I was told that I should check in w/ all of you to see if that was friendly." #nycga #ows
19:53 pm
He'll explain first. "I passed out some proposal forms that have the detailed proposal. If there are extras, and you've read it, please…"
19:53 pm
Cont'd: "..pass them around. The basic of the proposal is we would freeze all spending until we have another occupation." #nycga #ows
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "And this does not include the bail fund. My reasons for this proposal are many. One reason is that in planning #September17th…"
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "…we wanted to create a public space for dialogue on the crisis. And my worry is, we spend every General Assembly & Spokescouncil.."
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "…talking about financial proposals. We never talk to each other about why we're here, about actions we can all plan together.."
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "..about our goals for this movement. Another reason is that we're running out of money - quickly. And before we do that, maybe.."
19:55 pm
Cont'd: "…we should step back and decide what we want to really do w/ this money. Another reason is that I don't want to depend on.." #nycga
19:55 pm
Cont'd: "..economic capital for this movement. In my opinion, successful movements are based on human capital and social capital." #nycga
19:56 pm
Cont'd: "And economic capital is a good thing on the side, to support people's movements. There are more detailed explanations in..."#nycga
19:56 pm
Cont'd: "..my written out proposal, and I'm sure you all have really good ideas on why this is a good proposal or why this is a bad one."
19:56 pm
Cont'd; "So I would like to have breakout discussions, so we can talk to each other, and listen to each other on this proposal." #nycga #ows
19:56 pm
Sully takes a quick temperature check. "How do we feel about 15 minutes of breakout discussion in groups of wish?" #nycga #ows
19:57 pm
Sully: "That's looking very positive, so we're going to go ahead and do that w/ our time right now." #nycga #ows
19:57 pm
CQ: "After breakouts, will we consense on this?" Sully suggests so. Jason suggests, "perhaps breakout groups can choose a pointperson.."
19:57 pm
Cont'd: "…to do quick reportbacks before the consensus process." So we'll go through consensus after breakouts. #nycga #ows
20:01 pm
Here's a scan of the full proposal; I don't think all of this text is on nycga.net. #OWS #NYCGA http://t.co/m7JNp47S
20:09 pm
Folks in my breakout group not super excite about a full spending freeze, but talking about other things short of that, like cutting...
20:10 pm
...spending, making housing and kitchen less expensive, freezing everything *but* kitchen and housing, making WGs self-sustaining...
20:11 pm
...and/or having a grace period before a change kicks in. A few have given up homes and jobs for movement, but aren't unanimous against it.
20:12 pm
Someone who's brand new to #OWS says a full freeze seems like not a great idea. He says his opinion may not be as valid but we disagree.
20:14 pm
One suggests we deal w/ problem of money-oriented GAs by banning money proposals from half of GAs. Lauren is our scribe and is doing...
20:15 pm
...a really good job of facilitating by making sure all of our views are reflected so the reportback when we return will rep entire group.
20:16 pm
Someone notes that it seems crazy that we can't find couches or guest rooms for 120 occupiers during winter. Lauren, who's been a part...
20:17 pm
...of the Housing Working Group, notes she thinks biggest issue is housing & doesn't agree w/ how Housing is "paying to sleep in churches."
20:38 pm
OK, reportbacks. "Our group had a variety of opinions; some wanted to freeze funds so we can focus on our own resources from within."
20:38 pm
Cont'd: "Other people felt they'd like to not freeze the funds now, but freeze the funds in the Springtime." #nycga #OWS
20:39 pm
Cont'd: "Some people felt they didn't want to freeze any funds, b/c ppl would be hungry and homeless and would return to their homes.."
20:39 pm
Cont'd: "…and not be supporting #OWS. I think that's it." #nycga #OWS100
20:39 pm
Next: "We don't want to run out of money, but we don't want anyone to suffer." Thinks their FA will fix that.
20:39 pm
Next report back: "My group, we talked about 3 points. 1 point we talked about, we do not want to freeze Housing, Medics, Food, Comfort…"
20:39 pm
"…because people do live in those churches, and kicking them out is wrong. We want our food, comfort, shower, so forth, and we think that.."
20:39 pm
Cont'd: "..taking it away would be wrong. And we need a bigger advance window." #nycga #ows
20:39 pm
Next: "My group was very mixed; we have several who are staying at churches who were actually interested in freezing the accounts."
20:40 pm
Cont'd: "We also had one of the ppl from accounting give us some information. That info didn't change makeup of group. We also didn't.."
20:40 pm
Cont'd: "…come to a real agreement, but we did have a couple of ideas that might be friendly amendments." Will save for FA stack #nycga #ows
20:41 pm
Next, they felt that they are worried about spending, but don't think we can just freeze funds. Want to have bigger $ convo than 1 GA.
20:41 pm
Next: "Something really small to add, we'd like the focus of the GAs in particular to be more substantive, topical, talk about direction.."
20:41 pm
Cont'd: "…of movement, not just repeated finance proposals." Their FA would be to give a 1-week grace period on the proposal. #nycga #ows
20:41 pm
Next: "The only general consensus we reached is we didn't think a total indefinite freeze was a good thing; many WGs depend..."
20:41 pm
Cont'd: "…on money to remain operating; kitchen being most important for me. But we need to become more self-reliant, and stop spending.."
20:41 pm
Cont'd: "…so much money to solve those problems." Feels money was given to people in park, not the park itself. "Many of us have…"
20:42 pm
Cont'd: "..left everything to be here, so we have nothing in the eyes of the 1%. So I think many working groups should not be frozen.."
20:42 pm
Cont'd: "..but made more efficient, more dumpster-diving-savvy." #nycga #OWS
20:42 pm
Next: "The way I feel; what went on before the money didn't involve money." Ppl who remember how beautiful it was before that want it to...
20:42 pm
Cont'd: …be that way again. "the idea that we can't operate w/o money is just wrong." Notes the creep of cost/flexibility w/ money. #nycga
20:42 pm
Someone asks him if it's a group report back; someone from the group says it's not quite accurate. "Necessity is the mother of invention."
20:42 pm
CQ: "It's not clear, based on Spokes proposal, that GA can take financial power away from Spokescouncil." #nycga #ows
20:42 pm
A: They feel that it's the GA fund, and GA can indeed freeze it. #nycga #ows
20:43 pm
CQ: "After this passes, if GA passes a proposal approving money, would this proposal stand to make that proposal void?" A: "Yes." #nycga
20:43 pm
Now Concerns. "Those who have been counting on those funds may be driven to extralegal means once deprived, and be targeted by police."
20:43 pm
Next, Sage is concerned about small working groups that use $100/day to fill in small gaps, like his Restricted Diets working group. #nycga
20:44 pm
Sage: "If the $100 a day ends, I'll have to go back to negotiating with Kitchen, which is very stressful, and if that's stressful for me.."
20:44 pm
Cont'd: "..i can't imagine how stressful similar things will be for each of the working groups that will have to do the same." #nycga #ows
20:44 pm
Sage: "The second part of my statement: We have people here, like social workers, who can get folks food stamps. Others have let folks.."
20:45 pm
Cont'd: "..sleep on their floors." Sage figures it out day by day, but has been able to find places to sleep. #nycga #ows
20:45 pm
"So, if we do this, we'll need something to make ourselves more accountable in sharing floor space & resources like food stamp experience."
20:45 pm
Cont'd: "My concern is that w/o a friendly amendment that is just as powerful as 'no spending', that says 'forced sharing', we're going...
20:46 pm
Cont'd: "…to not spend, and not share." Hahah. "That's the balance of that statement." #nycga #ows
20:46 pm
OK, that's it for concerns, and we're on time. Sully is temp checking an additional 10 minutes. #nycga #ows
20:46 pm
(Sorry for the delay there guys, my iPhone and Mac forgot how to speak to each other. Weirdness.) #nycga #ows
20:47 pm
Next, Volunteer Services would very much like to see "petty cash gotten rid of and groups needing to go to GA or Spokes w/ budgets."#nycga
20:47 pm
Cont'd: "This would make spending much more explicit. We had an issue where someone in our group spent money on things.." #nycga #ows
20:47 pm
Cont'd: "..not related to our group, in fact the opposite of what he was supposed to be spending money on." Has left since being confronted.
20:48 pm
POI: "In relation to what Ravi just said, from an accounting perspective, we generally spend $2-$3k a day on petty cash. Is significant."
20:48 pm
NExt: "We're for the spirit of this amendment; we agree- any friendly amendment we'd suggest would change the proposal altogether.."
20:49 pm
Cont'd: "…and we hope you'll table this and take all the friendly amendments and work on a more comprehensive proposal." #nycga #ows
20:49 pm
Friendly amendment from another group: "Instead of entire month, let's do 2 weeks; housing is paid for for next 2 weeks, wouldn't be…"#nycga
20:49 pm
Cont'd: "…affected," food as well. "But I'm totally in your camp, Ravi, re: petty cash." But agrees about having some GAs be for money...
20:50 pm
Cont'd: …and some not for money. [Third time I've heard that tonight.] Next: "I'm not a regular occupier; don't know needs of occupiers."
20:50 pm
Cont'd; "Maybe we should have a requirement that working groups making proposals frequently take a look and make sure they need…"
20:51 pm
Cont'd: "..to be spending what they're spending." Hermes: "My amendment is 3-fold; first, I'd like you to include a way to look for new.."
20:51 pm
Cont'd: "…ways to get money, meaning financing, in other ways we can find. Second, to eliminate all that is not necessary. Third..."
20:51 pm
Cont'd: "…to have transparency between all, and to have books w/ the working groups that can be reconciled w/ the accounting, and have.."
20:52 pm
Cont'd: "…them online." Steve's FA: "If the point of this proposal is that we can talk about things other than money at GA, we can easily.."
20:52 pm
Cont'd: "…solve that problem just by designating time, like for first half hour, or on alternating days, for not talking about money."#nycga
20:52 pm
Lauren: "My concern is this proposal doesn't address issues. Money is running out; folks are becoming dependent, but this doesn't.." #nycga
20:53 pm
Cont'd: "…make any suggestions on how we can be self-sufficient w/o money." Was no money at first, should have GA on sustainability. #nycga
20:53 pm
Cont'd: "I think we could have more budgets rather than freezing; I don't agree w/ petty cash and it should be eliminated." #nycga #ows
20:53 pm
Cont'd: "So, to definitely have all the working groups propose budgets weekly, w/ maybe 1 or 2 GAs per week maximum." #nycga #ows
20:54 pm
Cont'd; "We need to reach out to the community more. The donations would flow more if we were more available to community in positive ways."
20:54 pm
Cont'd: "I think more ppl would know we're still here. Many ppl think this movement died when park was taken -- we know that's not.."
20:54 pm
Cont'd: "…the case, but they don't know." Should be more visible, doing outreach, show them where money goes so they'll donate. #nycga #ows
20:55 pm
Cont'd: "And I don't agree with freezing the bail money. At all." #nycga
20:55 pm
Next: "We need to phase things in, so ppl have a chance to prepare, and not a mass exodus" in panic. A FA would be, there's a sharing...
20:55 pm
Cont'd: …of information on how to obtain resources. "A lot of us know this, and others don't." #nycga #ows
20:56 pm
Zack: "I was in a group w/ Alejandro, and he expressed it already so I'll be quick. We think this is too complicated to be fixed tonight.."
20:56 pm
Cont'd: "…a lot of good issues raised by it." Notes he has a blocking concern, and is aware that 4 or 5 ppl have blocking concerns too.
20:57 pm
Nan: "My friendly amendment is what me and my group spoke about: housing, medics, food cut in half, and medics not frozen." #nycga
20:57 pm
Cont'd: She notes that ppl need those things, and if they go back home "we have a dead movement." For food, can augment w/ dumpstering.
20:57 pm
Cont'd: Nan also suggests we need to raise our own funds by networking w/ other organizations. "That way we can get more skill.."
20:57 pm
Cont'd: "…and then we come together and have a fundraising day and bring the money back to the movement." #nycga #ows
20:58 pm
Zack suggests that it would be a shame if after all this discussion and development, we not make "some kind of agreement w/ this group."
20:58 pm
Zack's FA is that we delay for a week, and make it a month-long spending freeze. Will give groups time to prepare. #nycga #ows
20:59 pm
Cont'd: "Then WGs could bring forward explicit budgets to explain what they'd want to spend for the next month." #nycga #ows
20:59 pm
Steven: "I have 2 concerns: my first concern is that this proposal is not necessary. If the GA doesn't want to spend $, they shouldn't."
20:59 pm
Cont'd: "If there is a proposal to spend $500, don't pass that proposal. My second concern is, there's a major loophole. I'm concerned.."
21:00 pm
Cont'd: "…that loophole will be exploited. That loophole is that it doesn't affect the bail fund." What might result is that instead… #nycga
21:00 pm
Cont'd: "I support the bail fund, for bail purposes. I do not want ppl bringing proposals to raid the bail fund." #nycga #ows
21:00 pm
Cont'd: "…of spending money from the general account, ppl will ask for money from bail fund for non-bail purposes." #nycga #ows
21:01 pm
POI: "Of course the GA can undo the bail fund, but @OWSAccounting understands it's a fund, for *bail*." #nycga #ows
21:02 pm
CQ: "How does this affect connected groups like Occupy Staten Island, etc?" A: "Our budget and bail fund is explicitly only connected to.."
21:02 pm
Cont'd: "…#OWS until and unless proposals come requesting money." That's it for FA stack. #nycga #ows
21:03 pm
Sully: "I want to do another quick straw poll here; who wants to go ahead through some kind of consensus process right now versus tabling…"
21:04 pm
Cont'd: "…#OWS until and unless proposals come requesting money." That's it for FA stack. #nycga #OWS
21:04 pm
Cont'd: "…so proposers can go through some of the FAs offered and bring it back to a later date?" Actually Jason volunteers to do so. #nycga
21:04 pm
Jason: "I got a styrofoam plate of your amendments! [It's true actually.] This is a complicated proposal; I will take exactly one week…"
21:04 pm
Cont'd: "…and bring it back next Saturday at the GA, and I'd request that everyone who cares about this proposal come talk to me.."
21:05 pm
Cont'd: "..so we can create a proposal that serves my intention of making sure the GA is about how we work as a movement, and not..."
21:05 pm
Cont'd: "…how we spend money." Thanks us, because this was a great conversation. And we applaud, because it's damn true. #nycga #ows
21:06 pm
All right! Sorry about some concepts that got dropped in that, technical difficulties always happen at the worst times. #nycga #ows
21:06 pm
OK, next is Nan's emergency proposal. We'll hear it, and then decide whether to discuss it (i.e. if it meets definition of an emergency.)
21:06 pm
Sully: "An emergency proposal is a proposal that has an external deadline that is immediate and not fore-knowable." #nycga #ows
21:08 pm
Nan: "The proposal that I brought was, an incident that happened, and a certain group did not properly address or handle it." #nycga #ows
21:08 pm
Nan says a man who allegedly raped an 18-year-old in the park got out of jail after 30 days on $50k bail and went to same church his...
21:08 pm
Cont'd: …victim was at. "Keep in mind, that victim worked with us, and we had a restraining order against that guy." #nycga #ows
21:09 pm
Cont'd: "The victim voiced her concern, let them know she didn't feel safe in that place because of this gentleman." #nycga #ows
21:09 pm
Cont'd: "Rather than calling me or other women's working groups, Housing decided themselves to have a jury of 15 ppl b/w victim.." #nycga
21:09 pm
Cont'd: "..and the gentleman. And they asked for both of them to basically give the details out. That's a concern to us as women. This.."
21:10 pm
Cont'd: "..is an emergency proposal. GA needs to come together, especially to protect women, gays, lesbians, altogether. We are.."
21:10 pm
Cont'd: "…here together to make a movement, to come together as one. We've already been targeted by the police; we don't want.." #nycga
21:11 pm
Cont'd: "…to keep being targeted by rapists." Nan says there's already a court process involved, w/ lawyers, and what happened was.. #nycga
21:11 pm
Cont'd: …disclosed to certain people. "We need to talk about what we're going to do. If we can have a breakout session, come back together..
21:11 pm
Cont'd: "…to figure out how we're going to work this out. Because we're dealing w/ a system that doesn't really like ourselves that much.."
21:12 pm
Cont'd: "…and we need to prepare ourselves. It's very serious." "What's the proposal?", I hear several people wondering. #nycga #ows
21:12 pm
Nan: "The proposal is this: I'd like a breakout session to figure out what we're going to do about the situation that took place; it was.."
21:12 pm
Cont'd: "…brought to the Spokescouncil, but we felt like it wasn't properly addressed. So we need to address it tonight." #nycga #ows
21:12 pm
.@NegestiC: POI: "Last night the #SC decided to enforce that ppl asked to leave the park, 3 of them, after being accused of assault and.."
21:13 pm
Cont'd: "..sexual assault not to come to our meetings even though we no longer live in the park." #nycga #ows
21:13 pm
Stairs asks us to temp check whether we think this is an emergency. Lauren wants clarification: "I heard some things earlier about ppl.."
21:14 pm
Cont'd: "…who are running Housing didn't allow that person to be removed. So is the issue not just to prevent coming to meetings.."
21:14 pm
Cont'd: "..but also to prevent him from being housed?" Nan says yes. Someone explains that what @NegestiC "included that." #nycga #ows
21:14 pm
Cont'd: "Anyone who breaks the community agreement according to what Spokes consensed on, won't be allowed in the community." #nycga #ows
21:15 pm
POI: "They agreed that these ppl couldn't re-enter space until the community agreement from Safer Spaces is completed. Not indefinitely."
21:15 pm
Nan: "Yes, but in the meantime, we need something in place in case something like this happens, we know how to deal w/ it before Safer..."
21:16 pm
Cont'd: "…Spaces proposal." Lopi says, "I heard today that the point people from housing tried to claim that the GA did not consense..."
21:16 pm
Cont'd: "..that this person was kicked out." Nan: "Yes, that's why I'm here saying that." Sully asks if we have enough info to temp check.
21:17 pm
Someone notes that they heard proposal for breakout discussion; huh? Nan clarifies she wants proposal to come from breakout groups. #nycga
21:17 pm
Stairs: "So your proposal is 'how do we address ppl who break community agreements?'" Sully: "There's a rule in the GA that proposals…"
21:17 pm
Cont'd: "..are supposed to be posted for 24 hours in advance unless they're 'emergency proposal.' We can discuss whatever we want.."
21:18 pm
Cont'd: "…but we can't discuss a proposal unless we approve that it is an emergency proposal." Would need to do after breakouts. #nycga #ows
21:18 pm
Lauren's POI: "I used to be in housing, and the 2 pt ppl, Jeff and Jason, who have been handling responsibility and delegating authority…"
21:18 pm
Cont'd: "…never in GA, when this park existed, did the GA consense that someone kicked out couldn't come back in. We never had..."
21:19 pm
Cont'd: "…discussions like that. When I was assaulted, I dealt w/ the cops, I posted flyers." Doesn't think we need to consense on this.
21:19 pm
Cont'd: "He was arrested, and the charge was made by the victim-- I think that's enough." If we break out, should discuss how we hold...
21:20 pm
Cont'd: …Housing WG accountable "for who they let in the church." CQ: "Can we not just let those in charge of churches know that these are..
21:20 pm
Cont'd: ..not safe people to let in? Nan clarifies that they decided to ignore it. Sully: "There are a lot of hands in the air, but we as.."
21:20 pm
Cont'd: "..a GA need to decide what we're doing with our time right now before we do anything else." Temp checks whether this qualifies..
21:21 pm
Cont'd: …as an emergency proposal. Many support, but there's still confusion about what we're consensing on given blurriness of proposal.
21:21 pm
Sully: "Can we do 10 seconds of silence? Because these are really hard things to talk about, and I know for me, it really triggers a lot."
21:22 pm
Sully says what's not clear to him right now is what the GA's role in this is. "It seems to me there's work that needs to be done outside.."
21:22 pm
Cont'd: "…of this meeting, unless there's a proposal that this meeting can decide whether to hear as an emergency proposal." #nycga #ows
21:23 pm
Nan restates that Housing decided to ignore what happened. "There should be rules in place for those individuals that allow raper to be.."
21:23 pm
Cont'd: "…around victim." Wants a rule to protect rape victim. "Nobody asks to be raped. It's a sad thing to be raped." #nycga #ows
21:23 pm
People shouting out of process: "Make 3 coordinators step down." "Make Jeff step down." Sully notes ppl up twinkled that. #nycga #ows
21:24 pm
Sully: "I still haven't gotten a sense of a proposal that GA can do anything with right now." OK, so Nan makes proposal to have...
21:24 pm
Cont'd: …the housing ppl step down, because it's wrong for them to create that situation. Nan is very upset. #nycga #ows
21:24 pm
Sully: "We just got an articulation of an emergency proposal: that we as a GA consense that there are 2 ppl basically acting as point ppl.."
21:25 pm
Cont'd: "..for housing, and that the GA consent on asking them to step down." "Does this body feel we can consider this as an emergency.."
21:25 pm
Cont'd: "…proposal right now?" "OK, so that looks pretty good, that we can spend time to consider it." #nycga #ows
21:25 pm
Sully notes that those who didn't feel it was an emergency proposal can express that during Concerns segment of consensus process. #nycga
21:26 pm
OK, now opening stack for clarifying questions "that you need answered to understand proposal well enough to have an opinion on it."
21:26 pm
CQ: "You're talking about saying somebody raped somebody, and it needs to be clarified: are they going to trial, are they convicted.."
21:26 pm
Cont'd: "…or is it just alleged?" He'd hate to be condemned by "a new system" we might set up, before even being convicted. #nycga #ows
21:27 pm
Cont'd: Many things wrong w/ current system, "but it does give you your day in court." Nan says she was there when it happened. #nycga #ows
21:27 pm
Cont'd: "Tar and feather," the last CQer says as he steps down. Melanie: "Nan, I'd like to know how you'd like us to enforce making them.."
21:28 pm
Cont'd: "…step down." Nan says it's on WoW and Safer Spaces to make that happen. Last night she tried to bring it up "and was ignored"...
21:28 pm
Next: Justin. "Nan, I just wanted to say that her question was basically my question: would the GA basically say to Jeff and Jason that.."
21:29 pm
Cont'd: "..you're simply not allowed to be point people for Housing b/c of your disrespect of women who've been assaulted?" #nycga
21:29 pm
Cont'd: "Also, should we make a statement to the churches too?" Someone else says they spent an hour at the church and was "extremely..."
21:30 pm
Cont'd: "..distressed"- "As soon as I heard the word Jason, who was one of the ppl who threatened me, I was very concerned." #nycga #ows
21:30 pm
His question: "I do understand the concern about somebody being penalized before judicial system" -- someone PoPS him. #nycga #ows
21:31 pm
POP: "Yesterday, the Spokescouncil said specifically, no one who has been kicked out, can be part of #OWS." Says they didn't wait for...
21:31 pm
Cont'd: …consensus, they just kicked him out "because he's a fucking rapist." "We don't do conviction," we as a community kicked him out.
21:32 pm
Cont'd: "What we're discussing tonight is how to deal w/ the ridiculous irresponsibility of Jeff and Jason." #nycga #ows
21:32 pm
Sully reminds us not to try to become the jury considering the facts of what happened / allegations. "What we need to decide is how.."#nycga
21:33 pm
Cont'd: "..we as a community respond to allegations." POI: "Re: Jeff, he's repeatedly been asked to step back and facilitated his.." #nycga
21:33 pm
Cont'd: "..own removal," and has dodged it. Next: "2 Qs: are these ppl here to be part of this discussion or are we going to do this in.."
21:34 pm
Cont'd: "…abstention; are we comfortable w/ that? Also, is housing going to step up if we remove these ppl?" #nycga #ows
21:34 pm
Lauren POIs: "We repeatedly asked Jeff and Jason to step down; I left housing as a direct result of how Jeff had taken over. He was…"
21:34 pm
Cont'd: "…constant facilitator of our meetings." Lauren will step in if Jeff and Jason are removed. #nycga #ows
21:35 pm
Lauren: "There are ppl willing to come back to housing, if Jeff or Jason are willing to revoke some of their role so we can try to.."
21:35 pm
Cont'd: "…alleviate these problems. And we need more female leadership in Housing." Sully sympathetically notes she's gone beyond POI.
21:35 pm
POI: Neither are here now, but one was informed this would happen but chose not to be here. #nycga #ows
21:36 pm
Lauren: "If we need to make a list of reasons why Jeff should be removed, maybe we could add that to the proposal." #nycga #ows
21:36 pm
Lauren: "We've tried to do this w/ Jeff present, and it doesn't work, so I don't think it matters if they're not present." #nycga #ows
21:37 pm
Lopi: "I'd like to clarify that if GA comes to decision about this, the GA is allowed to enforce that. We don't need WG to take it on.."
21:37 pm
Cont'd: "…if it goes into the minutes, the GA is empowered to enforce this if it comes to consensus." Nan says she loves GA; once...
21:37 pm
Cont'd: …GA consenses to that, it goes into affect. "They've got to step down, that's it." #nycga #ows
21:37 pm
.@CarrieM213: "How do you expect GA to come to consensus when we only have 1 side of the story? And is there a precedent for the GA…"#nycga
21:38 pm
Cont'd: "…asking the point person of a working group to step down? Would this be a new precedent?" Answer is no, no precedent. #nycga #ows
21:39 pm
CQ: "Have they been formally invited here w/ enough lead time to get their shit together?" Says is believer in due process. #nycga #ows
21:39 pm
Nan says she informed them she'd bring an emergency proposal; they laughed and said "hell, no." #nycga #ows
21:39 pm
Bob: "Has anybody talked to legal about this? And can we also add into the amendment that anybody who is charged w/ assault.." #nycga
21:39 pm
Cont'd: "…of any kind be banned from housing and meetings?" Nan accepts that friendly amendment. #nycga #ows
21:40 pm
POI: "This is an emergency proposal. I live in the church. There has been a rape trial held in the church by Jeff, presided over by Jeff."
21:40 pm
Cont'd: "It's a flagrant abuse of the power he's not supposed to have." He's not here now b/c he's empowered himself to make agreements..
21:41 pm
Cont'd: …with the "Pastor of a church that is housing 100 occupiers." #nycga #ows
21:45 pm
Some confusion about whether this is about Jeff/Jason or person they let into the church. It's about asking Jeff and Jason to step down.
21:46 pm
CQ: "by virtue of what authority do these two individuals hold their existing positions WRT housing? If their authority is self-created.."
21:47 pm
Cont'd: "...then they have no authority." Nan says they appointed themselves and bully everybody and we need GA to stand up to them.
21:48 pm
Christine: "I think this may be a necessary conversation, but I have a blocking concern that I don't believe in trials in absentia."
21:49 pm
Christine says she doesn't believe they were informed, according to info she has. Suggests we table this proposal until next GA. #nycga #ows
21:49 pm
Christine: "We don't do trials in absentia!" "This isn't a trial," someone says. Sage is next: "This friendly amendment is not going to be..
21:50 pm
Cont'd: "...simple; it's an idea. This problem is endemic: whoever's in charge, there will be complaints against them and they'll be valid."
21:51 pm
Sage says whoever is put in charge will be eventually "exhausted and abusive." suggests we provide support structure so they can step down..
21:52 pm
"...w/o fear that the things they do well won't be done well." Notes that in a volunteer movement, folks stepping up should be... #nycga
21:53 pm
Cont'd: ...met with excitement: "thank god!" Haywood's FA: "WG autonomy is an important thing. The GA makes decisions, but we never told.."
21:54 pm
Cont'd: "...them how to run the working group and I'm not sure GA has power to ask them to step down." suggests GA express that their...
21:54 pm
Cont'd: ...behavior is unacceptable and strongly recommend that they step down. Nan accepts. Someone suggests it might be better... #nycga
21:55 pm
..."since these ppl's roles are basically figments of their own imagination," that we contact churches directly and say we oppose these ppl.
21:56 pm
A: Nan notes that conflicts w/ Haywood's FA. Someone else notes whatever we do should still be communicated to the churches. #nycga #OWS
21:57 pm
So, the FA that church will be notified in writing is accepted. Lauren: "If we don't ask them to step down, they'll continue to abuse.."
21:58 pm
Cont'd: "...those roles we've appointed themselves." Sully PoPs b/c it's bigger than PoP. Lauren: "OK, my FA is that housing..."
21:58 pm
Cont'd: "...will become a group effort" where responsibility and power are evenly distributed. "Housing should be re-formed and roles.."
21:59 pm
Cont'd: "...redesignated." Next FA would try to force them to step down, ban those accused of assault from housing, and that anyone in...
22:00 pm
Cont'd: ...future be asked to step down automatically in similar circumstances. Sully steps in and notes proposal needs to stay relevant..
22:01 pm
Cont'd: ...to the emergency nature of the proposal. And that the component to make them leave housing conflicts w/ Haywood's FA.
22:02 pm
Next: "Anything involving sexual assault, rape, needs to be dealt w/ quickly." Says Jeff and Jason sound like "psychopaths." #nycga #OWS
22:03 pm
His FA is that they need to be removed for their malfeasance. Sully & Nan agree that's outside bounds of an emergency proposal. #nycga #ows
22:04 pm
Someone else proposes to force them to step down, and Haywood re-explains his FA. Lopi's C they may ignore a recommendation to step down..
22:05 pm
...so we should also highly recommend someone step up, and that we assert housing runs as horizontal organization. #nycga #ows
22:06 pm
Jason's biggest concern is that this infringes on WG autonomy. Notes his proposal on WGs not meeting during GA was blocked for same reason.
22:07 pm
Jason suggests we table and let Housing WG work it out. Nan does not accept that as friendly. PoI: "Housing WG has already asked Jeff to.."
22:08 pm
Cont'd: "...step back several times, but he tabled it himself." FA: "concerned this could be a witch hunt; wants a way for ppl to appeal."
22:10 pm
Someone FAs that we prevent GA funding for housing from going through either of these ppl. Someone notes the Housing $ actually...
22:11 pm
...goes through Spokes. FA suggested we give someone else that point person role WRT any GA powers. #nycga #ows
22:11 pm
Sage again says he doesn't trust the villainization of individuals when the issue is the system. Not defending them, but thinks they...
22:12 pm
Cont'd: ..are approachable and have offered him access to Pastor, in his experience, when they've disagreed. #nycga #ows
22:14 pm
[I'm on thumbs, sorry.] Sully restates proposal: "GA reccommends to Housing WG that Jeff and Jason step down, affirms that Housing..."
22:14 pm
Cont'd: "...should be run horizontally with no one empowered above anyone else, and that churches should be informed." #nycga #ows
22:15 pm
Someone restates FA to make Lauren as pt person, Lauren says she just agrees to come back to Housing if they step down. #nycga #ows
22:16 pm
Ok, Sully is tempchecking how we feel. "That's looking good; I'll go ahead and test for consensus." Any standasides? 5, 6. Some may explain.
22:17 pm
Anthony is standing aside only b/c Jeff or Jason aren't here. "I have no problem w/ someone else stepping up, but I wanted them to be here."
22:18 pm
Next standaside is Joseph, from Picture the Homeless asks why we need housing & how many housed are here to participate. Some ID themselves.
22:19 pm
Ok, there were 12 standasides. Sully: "Based on the number of standasides in this group, it seems we don't have consensus." Some remove...
22:20 pm
...and so we move to check for blocks. First block: "This infringes on working group autonomy." POI: "you don't have to remove your block.."
22:21 pm
Cont'd: "...you're just presenting a falsehood." notes that we are just recommending, not kicking anyone out. #nycga #ows
22:22 pm
Jason's block stands. Sage's block: "How many ppl are housed at 86th st church? 100. How many here now? Like 3. You're making..." #nycga
22:23 pm
Cont'd: "...decisions for ppl who aren't here." Sage says tho that his block is because these issues are systemic, not individual. #nycga
22:24 pm
"This proposal doesn't solve problem as I see it: this proposal is opportunistic. I don't think this will stop anyone from being assaulted."
22:25 pm
Folks are reacting emotionally, tho not super tensely. Just filling air w/ ideas. Sully calls for 10 seconds of silence, then reminds us..
22:25 pm
..that right now, certain "people are being asked to speak, and I'd like the rest of us to just listen." Continuing to next block. #nycga
22:26 pm
Daryl is blocking b/c Jeff and Jason are not here. "The person should definitely be able to be here in this situation."
22:26 pm
Daryl also says we need a grievance process before we can do this sort of thing. #nycga #ows
22:27 pm
Ravi: "Nan, when Yoni put up a proposal to ban you, I opposed it." "I'd never let anyone do what you're doing here to you." #nycga #ows
22:28 pm
PoI: "Jeff has been voted out twice by housing, and has ignored it twice, continued role. It's b/c he's disempowered whole group" tht this..
22:29 pm
..is here. "Jeff will not respect democracy. This is our attempt to get the GA to affirm what's already bn decided in Housing." #nycga #ows
22:30 pm
Nan responds to block. "I appreciate yr blocks. It hurts me that the victim would have to relive that again... For him to continue.." #nycga
22:31 pm
Cont'd: "...coordinating housing means she may not feel safe there again." Nan becomes overwhelmed, & after a couple of min Sully continues.
22:32 pm
Ok, we're moving to modified consensus. "if you're in favor, raise hands high." Sully is counting now. #nycga #ows
22:33 pm
23 in favor. Now counting opposed... 9 opposed. "It does not have modified consensus; it does not pass." #nycga #ows
22:34 pm
Sully: "This does not need to be the end of this conversation; another proposal can come." suggests we take a deep breath. #nycga #ows
22:35 pm
Next Housing mtg is tomorrow at noon, Monday at 3:30. Someone asks we all come, Sully volunteers to facilitate. #OWS #nycga
22:36 pm
Sage thanks us. "We celebrate that we have consensus; I want to celebrate fact we acknowledged that we didn't." #nycga #ows
22:36 pm
Announcements queue is opened. First: "I have an invitation from an organization that preserves the Earth's tropical rainforest and to.."
22:37 pm
Cont'd: "..create a new world of equity for all." two members will give a presentation Monday, noon, 60 wall. We're all invited! Will...
22:38 pm
...address question of what it will take to create an environmentally sustainable, just human society on earth. #nycga #ows
22:39 pm
Next, I announce that the @LibertySqGA team will meet Sunday at 6pm at 60 Wall! Come down and join us! #nycga #ows
22:40 pm
Goldie: "We're doing a radio show, and we're working on a segment of who we are and why we occupy!" he'd love to record us! #nycga #OWS
22:43 pm
Ok, that's it for announcements- & for GA! ?s, comments, concerns, discussion, get at tonite's tweeter: @diceytroop. Thanks fam! #nycga #ows
23:57 pm
Jason from housing wasn't there tonight, so all Jasons who spoke weren't him. RT @OWSTranslation: @LibertySqGA3 are these 2 diffrent Jasons?