09:37 am
RT @HelloFrances: @LibertySqGA2 People misunderstood this temp check and stairs restated. Group decided they wanted to finish Nan's prop ...
09:37 am
RT @HelloFrances: @LibertySqGA2 IMPORTANT.Should be reflected in minutes. GA wanted to finish Nan's proposal, then she tabled. She knew ...
09:37 am
RT @HelloFrances: @LibertySqGA2 And now GA will have to hear the proposal again! Nan completely disrespected the GA tonight. This needs ...
09:39 am
.@HelloFrances [I hear your frustration but Nan's not the first one to do this; she has the right to change a proposal and bring it back.]
09:40 am
.@HelloFrances [Being able to do that is crucial b/c it lets ideas be improved. Also, proceeding to consensus in no way changes that...]
09:42 am
@HelloFrances (...wouldn't hv changed her ability to bring it back, as satisfying as it might have been to temp check the *proposal* down).
19:47 pm
Hi! Tonight's #OWS Spokescouncil is starting now. Stairs wants to know if we want to do something "quick and fun" to get settled in. #nycsc
19:47 pm
Stairs: "Twinkle if you have a dog." "Cool." "Twinkle if you.." "have a cat, love chocolate," "prefer vanilla ice cream to chocolate"...
19:48 pm
Cont'd: "dance," "sing," "sculpt," "if you're married," "if you've got kids," "if you have siblings," "if you're an only child." (Laughs).
19:48 pm
Cont'd: "…if you live in new york city," "outside of new york city," "if you stay here in this church." Twinkles up in sequence. #nycsc #ows
19:49 pm
"Anyone have any other suggestions?" "If you came from a different state to be here?" Someone suggests "if it's your first Spokescouncil"..
19:49 pm
4 or 5 newbies. "What month you got here?" Lots of Septembers, many Octobers, some Novembers, few Decembers. #nycsc #ows
19:50 pm
Stairs: "Twinkle if some of these things are really important to you: civil liberties," "political reform," "a sustainable environment,"..
19:50 pm
Cont'd:"..alternative currencies," "women's' issues," "poverty," immigration, animal rights, education reform." #nycsc #ows
19:51 pm
People make suggestions. "Racial equality," "international equality," others. Other stairs jumps in: "Who wants to start Spokescouncil?"#ows
19:52 pm
Temp check on starting Spokes is a definite go! Stairs are recruiting timekeeper, stack taker, and vibes check. "Raise yr hand.." #nycsc
19:52 pm
Cont'd: "…if you need an explanation what that is? A vibes checker is a person who is looking around the room to see if the room needs..."
19:52 pm
Cont'd: "…something other than what's happening right now in the room." "They sense the room is becoming unreceptive to what's happening.."
19:53 pm
Cont'd: "…and might do an energy break, a joke, a game," etc. That done, stairs says "there are a few things I'd like to consense..."
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "..on before we start. are we ok w/ timing responses to 1 minute?" Lots of up. "Anyone want 2 minutes instead?" No. #nycsc #ows
19:54 pm
We'll do reportbacks and announcements first… "are we ok w/ stopping the meeting at 10:30?" Yes. "One thing we haven't had a chance..."
19:54 pm
Cont'd: "…to do much is to set an agenda for the next spokes meeting before we end this one, so we'll try to do that…"
19:55 pm
Cont'd: "…and also a session of constructive feedback for facilitators at the end of the meeting. Are we ok w/ that being the end of the..."
19:55 pm
Cont'd: "…meeting?" They ask for 10 minutes; someone suggests we set a little more time because "we like to discuss the agenda." #nycsc
19:56 pm
Someone asks what proposals we have on tonight's agenda. "We have 2 brand-new proposals; maybe more agenda items will come up…" #nycsc
19:56 pm
Cont'd: "..when we go around and ask for additional items." "How do you guys feel about setting the agenda right now?" #nycsc #ows
19:57 pm
Temp checking agenda first… but one of the Stairs notes that one suggested hand signal meaning "facilitation, go get 'em," (people are...
19:57 pm
Cont'd: …arguing that's not quite right) in the case of disrupters, which is like fist-bumping yourself. [Been told the proposal to use...
19:57 pm
Cont'd: ..that hand signal was for it not to be a motion but just to hold fists together. But it turned into fist bumping, which...]
19:58 pm
Cont'd: […turned some of the original proposers off to it.] Anyway, we're going through the agenda. #nycsc #ows
19:58 pm
Stairs: "I believe we start usually w/ working group reportbacks and announcements. Are we OK w/ making that our first agenda item?" #nycsc
19:58 pm
Robert says "we haven't actually determined that Spokes are the only ones speaking here -- are we at the point where only Spokes speak?"
19:59 pm
Stairs: "We were going to get to that. You're way ahead of me, Rob." Agenda: "There are 2 proposals: one from the medics, and one from…"
19:59 pm
Cont'd: "…sustainability group." Some of the unfinished business from previous #NYCSC: Thorin wants to talk about misinformation about him..
20:00 pm
"Thorin's not in town tonight," someone says. So scratch that. There's another item about money disappearing from general fund; no one...
20:01 pm
Cont'd: ..is here to present that either. [AFAIK that's based on a malicious and unsubstantiated rumor tht's been spreading for like 2mnths]
20:01 pm
There's also an Outreach proposal, not sure what it is tho. "Are the medics here?" Someone says many people were stuck on the train and...
20:02 pm
Cont'd: …are just arriving. [The 1,2,3 trains are totally crappy tonight, I was late too.] We'll pause for folks now arriving to settle in.
20:03 pm
Stairs asks how we feel about moving on w/ working group reportbacks and announcements while people settle in. #nycsc #ows
20:03 pm
Stairs: "I want to remind everyone we're now in spokescouncil mode, and the person who is spoking for your working group is the..."
20:03 pm
Cont'd: "…person who will speak for your group." Asks if any WG hasn't determined a spoke, looks like everyone has. #nycsc #ows
20:04 pm
Stairs asks folks w/ reportbacks to hold up signs. Not a lot of takers right off the bat. I think folks are still settling in. #nycsc #ows
20:06 pm
Music: "This Sat, 7:30pm, an #OWS benefit will be at Freddie's Bar in Brooklyn, 627 5th Ave, Sunset Park. Free. Accept donations of cash…"
20:07 pm
Cont'd: "…winter gear, and canned goods." Sustainability: "We've now got online information via video of how to build yr own energy bikes…"
20:07 pm
Cont'd: "…on Time's Up's website! So you can look it up and build yr own." Occupiers WG, Buck: "We're planning on getting very cheap..."
20:08 pm
Cont'd: "…bikes and repairing them and giving them to occupiers." Facilitation: "We're putting together a subgroup to make a.." #nycsc #ows
20:08 pm
Cont'd: "…guide on consensus process," so if you want to help, please do! Think Tank: "We had our first mobile think tank at staten island..
20:09 pm
Cont'd: "..ferry terminal, and if you want us to have one wherever your action is, please let us know." SIS: "We just want to let people..."
20:09 pm
Cont'd: "…know that we've moved out of the UFT space," have moved to Brooklyn and are working on a process for making items available.#nycsc
20:10 pm
That's it for reportbacks, and Kitchen just arrived w/ food. We're taking a 10 minute break to eat and drink & make very brief merry.#nycsc
20:10 pm
[Tonight is the first Spokescouncil since we activated it and determined membership on Monday! It already feels more comfortable.] #nycsc
20:29 pm
OK, we're coming back together. Some discussion of keeping language clean due to presence of children tonight and the Vancouver...
20:29 pm
Cont'd: …petition first offered at last night's GA. I'd love a URL for that. #nycsc #ows
20:30 pm
We're collecting additional agenda items -- someone says they have an announcement… "is this a reportback or a discussion?" #nycsc #ows
20:31 pm
OK, tonight's first proposal is from Sustainability. "Hi everyone! In case you don't know us personally, my name is Sarah; this is Winnie."
20:33 pm
The proposal is to fund participation in the Left Forum, at Pace University, March 16 to March 18, 2012. The theme is "Occupy the System:...
20:33 pm
Cont'd; "…Confronting Global Capitalism." Here's the text of the proposal: http://t.co/4rHFEhZv #nycsc #ows
20:34 pm
"The Left Forum is a non-profit organization; we've applied for a scholarship and if they don't give us one, we may need to pay more…"
20:34 pm
Cont'd: "…and we hope the GA will approve those funds." [GA meets Tues, Thurs, Sat, Sun. -Ed.] #nycsc #ows
20:35 pm
Total cost Sustainability are requesting for this panel are $476. Stairs is now taking stack for clarifying questions. #nycsc #ows
20:36 pm
Someone asks if we can check for consensus, but stairs insists that we need to go through the process. No CQs, tho. #nycsc #ows
20:37 pm
Someone asks what the money breaks down to again, and they explain essentially what the panel is for, and who's on it, as listed online.
20:37 pm
"There's a lot of different people involved." "Access for 3 days is $55; we believe one day is $10, but we encourage everyone to…" #nycsc
20:37 pm
Cont'd: "…be there, because it's basically a space where the kind of thinkers doing what we're trying to do are all going to be in the..."
20:38 pm
Cont'd: "…same room." Content will be "of great interest, and of great utility to us." "They want ppl from #OWS to participate, so if..."
20:38 pm
Cont'd: "…you're in a working group like facilitation, or direct action, we encourage you to come." #nycsc #ows
20:38 pm
Organization's CQ: "We think it's exciting that Left Forum is using #occupy in the title of the forum, but since they are, have they..."
20:39 pm
Cont'd: "…considered donating space to us, since they're using #occupy in the title of the forum? Have they considered that?" #nycsc #ows
20:39 pm
A: "We don't know - maybe. I guess the best way is, they may waive the fees / give us a scholarship. But we're not..." #nycsc #ows
20:40 pm
Cont'd: "…sure about space." POI: "They charge panelists on a sliding scale, even if there's no scholarship." A: "Great, if you have.."
20:40 pm
Cont'd: "…more information, that'd be great." A quick back and forth about details. Stairs notes that if they get the $, and don't need it..
20:41 pm
..it comes back anyway. "We just wanted to get the $ just in case. It'd be embarrassing for our panelists to show up that day and..."
20:41 pm
Cont'd: "…not be able to get in." If they can save the fees, they'll be able to give the money back. Danielle, PoCC spoke: "Does #OWS..."
20:42 pm
Cont'd: "..need to cover the transportation costs?" A: "We're doing it as a courtesy, since we're grateful that they're willing to..."
20:42 pm
Cont'd: "…stand with us. We want to make sure that since they're contributing to what we're trying to do, they don't need to pay anything.."
20:42 pm
Cont'd: "…to do so." Next, Jason from Housing. "I heard a few interesting things, and.. if the name #OWS is in it, why aren't they..."
20:43 pm
Cont'd: "…willing to let #OWS come w/o the $55?" But also, "if you're willing to go and can pay for it, why do you need $ from the fund?"
20:43 pm
POI: "The word #occupy is in the public domain, I'm not even sure if we marked #occupywallstreet." At this point, "#occupy is like the..."
20:44 pm
Cont'd: "…word "walk"". The proposers also point out that they will pay for this if #OWS doesn't, but they are doing it for and because of..
20:44 pm
Cont'd: "…the occupation, and it's a powerful space to bring our message to on our terms with the panel." #nycsc #ows
20:45 pm
Cont'd: "But if you think we're doing strong, solid, important work for the occupation, we shouldn't have to pay ourselves to make it..."
20:45 pm
Cont'd: "…happen." And again, they may not need to pay anything, so it's just to be safe. Jason: "So, to be clear, if it doesn't come from..
20:45 pm
Cont'd: "…the general fund, you'll pay for it yourself?" A: "We believe very strongly that this is an important thing to do and we'll..."
20:46 pm
Cont'd: "…figure it out if we have to." Someone asks if they'll go as #OWS or as #OWS Sustainability WG - it's the latter, but they… #nycsc
20:46 pm
…hope that other working groups will make proposals for their own panels at the Left Forum. #nycsc #ows
20:47 pm
OK, that's it for clarifying ?s. Spokes will take a minute to confer, and come back & check in if they have anything for concerns stack.#ows
20:48 pm
RT @deborahgomez3: @LibertySqGA International equality a political system that is not corrupt
20:48 pm
RT @pinato: @LibertySqGA watching on livestream...Stair has a nice vibe going!
20:50 pm
Stairs calling for working groups to get on stack w/ any concerns. But oh wait! The point of information raised earlier about them..
20:51 pm
Cont'd: …not having to pay seems to be correct! So they're withdrawing the proposal, and the conference will definitely happen. Awesome!
20:52 pm
OK, next is Jose from Medical w/ his proposal. "We're asking for funding for trainers that came down about 4 weeks ago for a series of.."
20:52 pm
Cont'd: "..classes." "Spent 3 days down here, taught a survival course in Liberty Square, later on that day trained trainers, and then..."
20:52 pm
Cont'd: "…they did a 2-day wilderness first aid and survival course," trained about 30 people including folks from #OccupyPhilly. #nycsc
20:53 pm
"They gave us an incredible discount on this; some of the trainers donated their time, it cost 25% of what this normally would cost frm them
20:54 pm
Cont'd: "We raised $275 [from somewhere] and $125 online, so what we're looking for is $1355." Proposal: http://t.co/wHXajHl7 #nycsc #ows
20:54 pm
"This includes $750 for the two trainers for three days work, $350 for shared driving travel costs to and from their school in NH…" #nycsc
20:54 pm
Cont'd: "…and $650 for the rental of 56 Walker for the two day Wilderness First Aid training, for a total of $1750. The food was taken…"
20:54 pm
Cont'd: "..the OWS kitchen and housing for the trainers was donated by an OWS supporter who put up the trainers in their apartment." #nycsc
20:55 pm
OK, they'd like to temp check right off the bat to see where they're starting from. After 30 seconds for working groups to confer… #nycsc
20:55 pm
…we do "a quick test of consensus" -- there's lots of up-sparkles, and a few hands in the middle. Opening stack for clarifying questions.
20:56 pm
CQ: "What does the training consist of?" A: "Sure - you can check out SOLO's website, but it was basic survival in a wilderness setting."
20:57 pm
Cont'd: "Wilderness is defined as 1 hour from help. Given sometimes police will block protests in, we'll have times in "wilderness"..."
20:57 pm
Cont'd: "…in downtown manhattan." So it's about how to assess patients, and deal w/ emergency first aid issues. Not to be confused w/ ...
20:58 pm
Cont'd: ..Street Medic training.CQ: "Are these medics going to be available to anyone that needs medics in #OWS?" #nycsc #ows
20:58 pm
A: "We hv, in Charlotte's place, 12-6pm M-F, a medical station, staffed w/ nurses and our medics. We also try to show up at every.." #nycsc
20:59 pm
Cont'd: "…street action, and also try to be at Liberty Square" and places people sleep. "That's why we're here." #nycsc #ows
21:00 pm
Someone asks if the question is about trainers, or medics that have been trained. It's about general availability of treatment, which...
21:00 pm
Cont'd: ..is apparently widespread. POI: "This has already occurred, and they're asking for reimbursement." #nycsc #ows
21:02 pm
Facilitation's CQ: "You all asked what we wanted to ask." Next CQ: "I think this proposal was brought to the GA?" #nycsc #ows
21:02 pm
A: Rsn for GA block was "why should we pay for survival training when there are homeless folks in our community that can do this training?"
21:02 pm
The next two questions were about the same thing. Someone says it's not worth it to pay for it "if it's already done and over with."#nycsc
21:04 pm
Technically not a clarifying question. Now we are opening stack for Concerns, though. Jason's concern: "First, if this is something that's..
21:04 pm
Cont'd: "..already been paid for, for our working group or any working group to come afterwards to ask to be reimbursed puts a pressure.."
21:05 pm
Cont'd: "…on the room to try and reimburse. Second, we've had people sleeping at St Paul's church down the street for the last 5 weeks..."
21:05 pm
Cont'd: "…and we were denied medics because we didn't do things according to the safety cluster." Jose disagrees. "What you just said…"
21:05 pm
Cont'd: "…is just flat-out not true. Jason, you yourself know better. I've spent many nights there with you myself." #nycsc #ows
21:07 pm
Jason says that the medics that came came because they heard there weren't any. Jose says they count. #nycsc #ows
21:07 pm
Jose wants to clarify. "At the beginning, what came in were a group of action-oriented, highly arrestable medics - street medics. They..."
21:07 pm
Cont'd: "…held it down for a few weeks, until some highly-specialized people came and medical evolved. Doctors, nurses, herbalists.."#nycsc
21:07 pm
Cont'd: "…that's what's been going on the first time. There haven't been too many street medics since those first few. Lots of doctors..."
21:08 pm
Cont'd: "…nurses, and acupuncturists have spent long hours at that church. That's all medical. We never took away care. That never happens..
21:08 pm
Cont'd: "..with medical. I'd like to hear your concerns if you feel differently, but you've seen them there." #nycsc #ows
21:09 pm
Jason gets up to speak, but sits when he sees a point of process he expected. "This is not the place to have a dialogue with this, we need..
21:09 pm
Cont'd: "…a different structure to deal with this." Jose hopes an ongoing mediation process can be that place. #nycsc #ows
21:09 pm
Jason accepts that but rephrases his concern. "I'd hope that medics and safety cluster will equally provide services, openly, to…"#nycsc
21:09 pm
Cont'd: "…everybody that's in #OWS." Jose: "I'd like to take a moment to give a little more information, so we can be transparent." #nycsc
21:10 pm
Cont'd: "..felt comfortable practicing. But we have had medics there continually, and that will continue." #nycsc #ows
21:10 pm
Jose: "There were some ppl who chose not to go to that space because of fears of physical harm - tht wasn't a space where some individuals..
21:11 pm
POI: "It would be hard for every working group to provide services equally to everyone; we're working to do so, but my PoI is it's…" #nycsc
21:12 pm
Cont'd: "…impossible to do so right away." Marisa from Facilitation provides a point of process: "This isn't about the proposal anymore."
21:12 pm
Jeff from Housing agrees w/ Jason, and says that working groups that commit to working for #OWS should follow through, and that issues...
21:13 pm
Cont'd: …should be dealt w/ via mediation or the wider community." Stairs clarifies that's already happening, and that... #nycsc #ows
21:13 pm
Cont'd: …the proposal is for these trainings. Jeff says if training is being received, and they're not returning benefit to the community..
21:14 pm
Cont'd: "..that's a concern." Jose says he'll put the medics' schedule up on nycga.net. But "street medics, basic first aid medics..."
21:14 pm
Cont'd: "..doctors, nurses, and I ask that you trust me that we have stayed at that church giving care." #nycsc #ows
21:15 pm
Someone provides a PoI that they received medical care at that church. Kitchen's concern: "In interacting w/ some of the ppl that..."
21:16 pm
Cont'd: "…i'm pretty certain went to your training -- the EMTs who were at Liberty in the first month -- it was strange seeing ppl..."
21:16 pm
Cont'd: "..do a workshop on hypothermia, but they wouldn't help me put plastic bags around people's feet." #nycsc #ows
21:16 pm
Sage continues. "Some of the basic skills you learn being homeless, were kind of thrown aside -- like, if you don't know what an Epipen is..
21:17 pm
Cont'd: "…you don't know anything useful. And that class definition, again.. I think that goes a lot to why people blocked. I'm 100%…"
21:17 pm
Cont'd: "…certain that there are a multitude of voices grateful for your team being at protests. So if we could compromise and refund..."
21:17 pm
Cont'd: "…some, if not all of the $, that would be a good compromise." Jose sympathizes w/ Sage's concerns "about what the park was..."
21:18 pm
Cont'd: "…like, early on." Notes that that exact same maneuver was featured at this training. "For whatever reason, b/c they were from…"
21:18 pm
Cont'd: "…Philly, or they have personal issues that made them not listen to certain people," he doesn't know. But he's glad he paid...
21:19 pm
Cont'd: …out of pocket so that "more people could get that training." OK, tht's it for concerns, now opening friendly amendment stack.#nycsc
21:19 pm
Stairs: "Please talk to your groups for 30 seconds, and then raise your sign if you have a friendly amendment to the proposal." #nycsc #ows
21:20 pm
Housing FA: "I really would <3 that this $ is reimbursed, but really hope that, to the best of their ability, medics and safety cluster.."
21:21 pm
Cont'd: "…would do their best to serve all people under the #OWS umbrella." Jose: "As the spoke for medic, I'm happy to accept that..."
21:21 pm
Cont'd: "..amendment," can't speak for safety cluster but will bring it back to the working grp. Cluster: "That'd be all right, but what.."
21:22 pm
Cont'd: "…about all the other people who might come back and ask to be reimbursed? Before you do this, consider that." #nycsc #ows
21:22 pm
Stairs notes that's not an amendment, reviews "we're asking the proposer to amend the proposal to address a concern." #nycsc #ows
21:22 pm
Think tank were on stack, but they pass. Information says "in order for info to have access to training info, can you commit to continue.."
21:23 pm
Cont'd: "…to work on a scheduling process, and put that on the website for medical, or show some way of being transparent..."
21:23 pm
Cont'd: "…like, I know you're going to charlotte's place, but can you put other places on the site?" A: "we.riseup.net/ows-medics is our..
21:24 pm
Cont'd: "…website, check it for info." FA: "Can you and your groups have teach-ins to share this info from the training?" A: "Two people..."
21:24 pm
Cont'd: "…are organizing Wednesday skill-shares, that'll start soon." 8 hour herbal training, and a 20 hour street medic training soon too.
21:25 pm
Q: "Would that be using the info from these trainings?" A: "Yes, it's all cumulative. We'd like to train you all so well that we don't..."
21:25 pm
Cont'd: "…need to do our jobs anymore. You'd all be medics, and that'd be great." OK, that's it for stack, so we're going to rephrase..
21:25 pm
"This is a request for funding for a training we had about a month ago w/ SOLO for CPR, training, and winter survival." #nycsc #ows
21:26 pm
"We gladly accept the amendment from Housing to continue to provide care to everyone in #OWS regardless of whatever else happens." #nycsc
21:26 pm
"And we'll put it on our private scheduling page -- at least some information about it on we.riseup.net/ows-medics, and also info on.."
21:29 pm
Cont'd: "…future trainings, find out what's happening there." OK, 30 seconds to confer. "Please raise your signs if you're in agreement…"
21:29 pm
Cont'd: "…with this proposal going forward." Many signs. "Signs for any outstanding concerns?" There is one. She wants to make sure...
21:30 pm
Cont'd: …they're going to make sure the info from the training gets to everyone. Jose: "Yes, that is something I will fail at, but I will.."
21:30 pm
Cont'd: "…do my best to do that." With no more outstanding concerns, we prepare to ask for standasides and blocks. #nycsc #ows
21:31 pm
Stairs: "Are there any spokes who'd like to standaside from this proposal?" No. "Are there any spokes that wish to block this proposal?"
21:31 pm
No blocks! Stairs: "So, we appear to have consensus on the proposal!" #nycsc #ows
21:32 pm
Someone reports that #OWS protesters in Cano, Nigeria are being "shot at w/ live ammunition and tear gas." #nycsc #ows
21:32 pm
Stairs reflects. "There really are people out there dying, and we come together because we want to prevent that from every happening."
21:32 pm
Cont'd: "It's a pretty serious announcement to make in this room. But we need to remember the stuff we face in America is light…" #nycsc
21:33 pm
Cont'd: "…compared to that." We're going to take a 2 minute break so people can process that and also cookies are being passed around.#nycsc
21:33 pm
Stairs: "How do people feel about 1 minute of silence for people who are being shot in Nigeria?" OK. "Starting now." #nycsc #OWS
21:34 pm
<being silent….> #ows #nycsc #nigeria #realness
21:34 pm
Stairs: "I think it's important we do this kind of thing for each other, across the globe. And that we really remember we are across the..."
21:35 pm
Cont'd: "…world and not just here in America. Let's remember that…" #nycsc #ows
21:38 pm
Stairs: "OK, so we're going to come back together and hear this proposal from Outreach." #nycsc #ows
21:38 pm
Outreach, Diego: "It's been a concern, a proposal worked on by people from Outreach, De-escalation, and some from Facilitation…"
21:38 pm
cont'd: "Essentially what I've kind of been hearing is kind of this gap in procedure when certain individuals come to spokes.."
21:39 pm
Cont'd: "We don't have a procedure to remove those people, or those who abuse the process, to not allow them back in the building." #nycsc
21:39 pm
Cont'd; "So we've been talking to a lot of people to try to have a procedure for that. So essentially, it's really simple; it's a…"#nycsc
21:40 pm
Cont'd: "…three-phase procedure." They're trying to introduce the new sign, w/ two fists together, and "we'd like ppl to make this.."
21:40 pm
Cont'd: "…sign, to indicate contention or conflict." Step 2, facilitators would notice how many there were, and could stop temp-check how...
21:41 pm
Cont'd: ..people feel about the issue. "And if the reading is right, they'd warn the individual, 'there is a contention going on, and if.."
21:41 pm
Cont'd: "…they do it again, there's a possibility they wouldn't be allowed at the next Spokescouncil." Next, there'd be a temp check to..
21:42 pm
Cont'd: …continue. "Next, if it happens again, the individual will be told they're not allowed into this space for a week." #nycsc #ows
21:42 pm
Cont'd: "It's a week because if you're a spoke, you're not allowed to spoke for a week anyway." Phase 3: the next meeting. #nycsc #ows
21:43 pm
Cont'd: "Phase 3, working w/ de-escalation, there'd be people not allowed to come in. They can come back in a week." #nycsc #ows
21:43 pm
Cont'd: "The idea is to set tone that there are consequences for your behavior; we want to get things done & we want ppl to understand tht."
21:43 pm
During the meeting where someone is not allowed in, the Council can discuss questions and concerns as to why. #nycsc #ows
21:48 pm
Here's page 1 of the Outreach "Nonsense Defense Procedure" proposal... #nycsc #ows http://t.co/1Sk6vdjo
21:48 pm
Aaaand here's page 2 of the Outreach "Nonsense Defense Procedure" proposal... #nycsc #ows http://t.co/tfrVfclp
21:50 pm
Stairs now asking for clarifying questions, after giving working groups a chance to review. Big CQ stack for this one. #nycsc #ows
21:51 pm
First, Safer Spaces' CQ: "Was outreach aware, while making this proposal, of Safer Spaces' current project of creating a Community…" #nycsc
21:51 pm
Cont'd: "…Agreement and Accountability process that would serve a similar function? & did you reach out to SS or the Safety cluster?"#nycsc
21:51 pm
A: "I was aware that SS was working on something very big, but again, I felt like this wasn't -- that's still necessary, but this if..."
21:52 pm
Cont'd: "…someone behaves in a way that everyone agrees isn't right, like, you shouldn't threaten people," this helps deal w/ it. But yes.
21:52 pm
Next, WoW. "50% of the people, is that 50% of spokes or ppl in room? And Q 2, in Phase 3, when there's a discussion about why someone.."
21:53 pm
Cont'd: "..is banned, is it possible to unban them or is it just a discussion about a standing decision from the week before?" #nycsc #ows
21:53 pm
A: "The way Spokes works, the Spokes express themselves on behalf of their groups, so it'd still be appropriate for it to be 50% of Spokes.
21:53 pm
Cont'd: "But, since someone is threatening the community, that could be changed by a friendly amendment, rather than having ppl ask.."
21:54 pm
Cont'd: "..spokes to express they're feeling unsafe." So, he likes 50% of the room better. "Actually I think the convo [about banning]..."
21:54 pm
Cont'd: "…would be more of an update, to explain why." Notes caucus' pwr to interrupt spokescouncil process and/or veto would apply. #nycsc
21:55 pm
CQ: "Can that veto be used during phase 3, as well as phase 2?" A: "No, as of phase 2, it's already happened." #nycsc #ows
21:55 pm
PoCC has a POI: "Caucuses have the ability to halt the proceedings of spokescouncil, but not necessarily veto power." #nycsc #ows
21:56 pm
Marisa clarifies. "If a proposal came forward, and say, PoC felt it was racist, they could halt the proceedings, but that doesn't mean..."
21:56 pm
Cont'd: "…it won't come up again after being changed, or after future discussion, or other circumstances." #nycsc #ows
21:57 pm
CQ: "RE: 2nd page, first asterisk: does this mean that a veto can be exercised every other spokescouncil? So someone can disrupt Mon..."
21:57 pm
Cont'd: "..Fri, Weds -- is that what that means?" A: "Let's say a person gets banned on Monday, but that gets vetoed by a caucus. The idea..
21:57 pm
Cont'd: "…would be that if that happens again on Monday, then that caucus could not use their veto for that person on Wednesday; that…"
21:58 pm
Cont'd: "…person would have to wait a week to return. And then Wednesday, they could disrupt again, and there could be a veto again..."
21:58 pm
Cont'd: "…but again, this wasn't made to be hard-core enforcement, it's just to set the idea that there are consequences for behavior."
21:58 pm
"We make mistakes. It's just a week. So you can use your veto Monday, but can't use it Wednesday for same person." #nycsc #ows
21:59 pm
CQ: "But technically, if they came back Friday, they could veto again, right?" A: "Ahh… a loophole! Dammit!" Hahah. They'll look for a...
21:59 pm
Cont'd: …friendly amendment to address that. OK, Library's on stack. "I have a question about re-ratified caucuses. I don't really know..."
22:00 pm
Cont'd: "…that means." A: "The 3 ratified caucuses (sorry, 3, not "re" ) are ppl of color caucus, women occupying wall street, queer caucus.
22:00 pm
De-escalation: "1, when we tabled similar things brought up 2 weeks ago, and safer spaces said they were going to work on a process for.."
22:01 pm
Cont'd: "…going over our community agreements, and a procedure for dealing with ppl who disrupt, and to try to be as inclusive as possible..
22:01 pm
Cont'd: "…now I'm certainly all for accountability, but what I'm asking is, is there anything in here that is geared toward engaging..."
22:01 pm
Cont'd: "…the individual outside of here?" That's the type of thing Safer Spaces was doing. "It's really important to be inclusionary."
22:02 pm
Stairs: "Let me just restate that we are in clarifying questions mode. And we can have these very valid amendments during amendment mode.."
22:02 pm
Comfort: "About 15 minutes ago, someone came up here screaming, yelling about a metrocard." Notes that supports the need for this.
22:03 pm
Stairs notes that's not a clarifying question. Sustainability: "Have you thought through a way to, if someone does get kicked out for the.."
22:03 pm
Cont'd: "..week, have you thought through contingencies for enforcing that in a way that won't be really disruptive, b/c once they've.."
22:03 pm
Cont'd: "…already been kicked out, they're not likely to be willing to just walk out quietly." Someone notes, "de-escalation has at times.."
22:04 pm
Cont'd: "..had to martially enforce peace, so it's a hard line to toe. There has to be peace for the meeting to happen. Whatever happens.."
22:04 pm
Cont'd: "..whether it's this one from Diego, or the safety cluster one, whatever happens - removing someone from one of these meetings is.."
22:04 pm
Cont'd: "…serious business. It can't be because of a disagreement, it must be code red-- someone has their hands on someone, or someone.."
22:05 pm
cont'd: "..is hijacking the meeting, and the process is fucked." "It's got to be respect; hopefully everyone in this community loves and..."
22:05 pm
Cont'd: "..knows each other, so it's not being cops, it's "come on, dude, you're disrupting the meeting."" Respect and love are main...
22:06 pm
Cont'd: …enforcement techniques, but we will carry someone out. He'd rather not let someone in than carry them out, though. #nycsc #ows
22:06 pm
Stairs notes time is running short, so this may need to be delayed to the next SC meeting. Sage: "I'm of 2 minds; I don't like it because.."
22:07 pm
Cont'd: "..it seems like a silent point of process, but i do like it for the same reason." Can make specific point w/o speaking. #nycsc #ows
22:07 pm
Stairs prompts him to ask his question. "How much of this is up to facilitation to arbitrate?" Feels sometimes ppl don't get chance to...
22:07 pm
Cont'd: …explain themselves. "How much authority does facilitation have to… yeah." Diego: "I think that's a great question; I think a lot.."
22:08 pm
Cont'd: "…of us have probably thought about it for a long time, so this is why facilitation would hv to check if their reading is correct."
22:08 pm
So it's not really facilitation, but they'd have to check, "Am I right? Is someone really being abusive?" Some ppl think it's gonna...
22:09 pm
Cont'd: …be abused, bt "it's really obvious whn someone abuses the meeting. We'll hv a procedure to make sure they can't come in next time."
22:09 pm
Library. "We just wanted to know really quickly if there was a process -- are ppl going to be removed from the meetings, or is this.."
22:09 pm
Cont'd: "..just for the next meeting?" A: "This proposal specifically is to not allow people in next time who were disruptive this time."
22:10 pm
Cont;d: "Although it was wrong the way exclusion happened last time, we thought it might be wise to have a procedure, since we know now.."
22:10 pm
Cont'd: "..we can hold them at the door." And now, there is something unspoken about removing people who are violent, this is for...
22:11 pm
Cont'd: …people who are threatening or messing up process. Brandon: "No one wants to exclude anyone, it would need to be really bad."
22:11 pm
Marisa from Facilitation notes that there have been many drafts of an accountability process, and suggests we should have an ad-hoc...
22:11 pm
Cont'd: …group to flesh out and combine these proposals. Anthony: "Since the other ones are in the works, we should come up w/ something.."
22:12 pm
Cont'd: "…for right now. If they're working on 20 proposals, 30 proposals, but someone's disrupting right now, we have this. It might not.."
22:12 pm
Cont'd: "..be the greatest process, but it lets us deal with safety issues" quickly." CQ: "RE: word "facilitator's discretion", and word...
22:13 pm
Cont'd: "…'disruption'?" -- want to define it. A: "You're right; I don't want to empower facilitators more than they should be, but they.."
22:13 pm
Cont'd: "..are in a position to read the room, so the 50% is something that should be…" Questioner restates, since disruption is...
22:14 pm
Cont'd: ..not defined, "how do we know this won't be used" in a way it's not intended to be? A: "If we just don't agree w/ somebody..."
22:14 pm
Cont'd: "…that's fine, but if they're abusing the process and not allowing us to continue, that's where it comes in -- that's where..."
22:14 pm
Cont'd: "..everybody is -- " But the questioner is still concerned that the language is overly broad. #nycsc #ows
22:15 pm
OK, so we're tabling this for next meeting since we're out of time, and want to finish with agenda-setting for next time. #nycsc #ows
22:16 pm
Stairs suggests that ppl submit questions for next Friday; someone suggests "we start exactly at this point at 7pm on Friday." #nycsc #ows
22:16 pm
Stairs: "One of the things we agreed to do is set our agenda for Friday's Spokescouncil." #nycsc #ows
22:17 pm
Stairs: "We didn't get to a discussion on behalf of the people of color caucus, or a discussion from alternate kitchen." #nycsc #ows
22:17 pm
Stairs asks if PoCC and Alternate Kitchen want to speak on Friday's agenda, or convert to an announcement tonight. #nycsc #ows
22:17 pm
PoCC will just make an announcement tonight, and Alternative Kitchen will make an announcement and also ask to be on agenda Friday.#nycsc
22:18 pm
So, Friday, "we'll continue w/ this proposal we just put a pause on, and we'll have the following discussions.." #nycsc #ows
22:18 pm
Jeff from Housing says Housing is concerned that resuming this proposal might not be feasible due to change in membership in group. #nycsc
22:18 pm
Stairs suggests they can restate it; but ppl are insisting we probably need to start all over again. Marisa from Facilitation says...
22:19 pm
Facilitation: "We should start the process over because it's a different composition." Stairs accepts that. #nycsc #ows
22:19 pm
OK, PoCC announcement: "Last wednesday, I addressed everyone regarding events of previous friday, explained feelings and.."
22:20 pm
Cont'd: "…some next steps. Stated we'd get together w/ other members of PoCC and draft some suggestions of what to do about it." #nycsc #ows
22:20 pm
Cont'd: "We met Thursday; there were some members new to PoCC, some others; started working with Safer Spaces. It was to be done..."
22:20 pm
Cont'd: "…today, and I just want to acknowledge that it's not done today, it needs more work and thought." #nycsc #ows
22:20 pm
Next, Sage (Alternative Kitchen): "1 week ago today, I had a personal situation in the office w/ Accounting; it was very emotional..."#nycsc
22:21 pm
Cont'd: "…it involved.. an inappropriate behavior… non-consensual physical contact, and just -- I don't even want to say it out loud."#nycsc
22:21 pm
Cont'd: "It led to me attacking somebody. Since that time I've been blocked from the office. The reason I'm making this announcement is..."
22:22 pm
Cont'd: "…I feel lk I've asked for a sit-down w/ other ppl involved, & the way they're framing it isn't respectful of what happened to me."
22:22 pm
Sage says "sexual harassment" is within the range of what happened, despite "not having heard a lot of it in the 90s." #nycsc #ows
22:22 pm
Sage: "I feel someone is being protected, and an unsafe space is being maintained. I've talked to the Office affinity group, I've talked.."
22:22 pm
Cont'd: "…to people in Accounting Working Group, so I'm just asking the group as a whole, I'd be happy to tell them what happened."
22:23 pm
Cont'd: "Basically, I want to know if the person who did what they did are willing to hold themselves accountable; if not, I want to know.."
22:23 pm
Cont'd: "…if the working group will hold them accountable; if not, I want to know if the office is OK w/ that, and if they're not, then.."
22:23 pm
Cont'd: "…I need you guys to know that there's a lack of accountability. And if you guys are OK w/ the Office affinity group not holding.."
22:24 pm
Cont'd: "..working groups accountable, then I won't be coming to you all before. I'm just asking for help, b/c at this pt it's been a week."
22:24 pm
Stairs gently asking Sage to move on so we can wrap up. Stairs: "Any other agenda items ppl want to talk about in Friday's meeting?" #nycsc
22:25 pm
Doesn't seem so. Hey, Michael Moore is here! Stairs asks if we want to give him permission to speak (he's not a spoke). #nycsc #ows
22:25 pm
"We're getting a very mixed response," so they'll consult w/ facilitation -- Marisa says "we agreed to do feedback now." #nycsc #ows
22:26 pm
Stairs: "Please keep it constructive and brief, and then we can stay if we'd like to hear @MMFlint speak." #nycsc #ows
22:26 pm
POI: "Mr. Moore might necessarily not want to speak." Hahah. OK, "hands up if you have anything you'd like to help facilitation with."#nycsc
22:27 pm
Marisa, Spoke for Facilitation working group: "So, I just wanted to congratulate you, and all of us, and Facilitation in particular, for…"
22:27 pm
Cont'd: "..having a *functional Spokescouncil*!" WOOHOO! "I hope this continues." She wishes we started more promptly, but liked the intro..
22:28 pm
Cont'd: ..exercise. Stairs: "I was meaning to ask you all, is it Ok if we have an intro exercise each time we come together?" #nycsc #ows
22:28 pm
That's it for feedback; Stairs: "Do we want to invite Michael Moore to speak?" I guess facilitation already did sort of. #nycsc #ows
22:28 pm
(The dude to my right, who earlier said "He's rich! Let's eat him!" also sagely notes that "We let Nan speak!" re: @MMFlint) #nycsc #ows
22:29 pm
Sorry, more feedback for facilitation. "So, I think that facilitation was nice this evening, and I liked how you took help from ppl, and..."
22:29 pm
Cont'd: "…it really felt like group facilitation tonight; we're learning as we go along and I really appreciate it." #nycsc #ows
22:30 pm
Cont'd: "And I also liked that we were continuously giving input on decisions," cites setting up the end at the beginning. "..it was great."
22:30 pm
Next. "I think that the team did a really excellent job; really even-handed. I would say you could know the spokes process a little better..
22:31 pm
Cont'd: "…there was a little bit too much crowd sourcing -- great facilitation, too, but was disappointing to see facilitation get…"
22:34 pm
Cont'd: "…razzled by a celebrity and not follow process." Also, should start on time. Stairs lifts that up and asks if we can agree to...
22:34 pm
Cont'd: …start right at 7. We broadly agree, although someone suggests 7:30, if food can arrive at 7. #nycsc #ows
22:35 pm
Gary's feedback: "One criticism; for first 20 minutes, we weren't really discussing anything." Feels that if we get something done early...
22:35 pm
Cont'd: ..it might help to set the pace. Robert: "It would have been nice if this evaluation period was opened to whole room instead of.."
22:35 pm
Cont'd: "…just spokes." Also notes many ppl didn't like breaking meeting for food, and also feels we went off-neutral re: tweet from Nigeria
22:36 pm
Hermes' feedback: "I wonder if the Spoke itself can ask a group to write a code of conduct that would be agreed to by spokes themselves."
22:37 pm
Next feedback: "I felt this meeting was one of the better meetings; last meeting was calm and peaceful to. Also, there's a documentarian…"
22:38 pm
Cont'd: "…here, and I think downtwinkling documentarians is disrespectful" considering effort made to be here. #nycsc #ows
22:39 pm
Jose says Facilitators were great, but asks facilitators be super, super conscious about "not interrupting people." Also suggests that...
22:39 pm
Cont'd: …ways to bring group's attention back besides mic check, which brings a shoutier energy than some of the other ways. #nycsc #ows
22:39 pm
Danielle from PoCC has more feedback: "The fact that you stopped to have a movement of silence when we got the news about Nigeria, I..."
22:40 pm
Cont'd: "…thought was super-important." Someone asks that ppl clean up their food/plates before we leave. #nycsc #ows
22:41 pm
OK, time to maybe hear from @MMFlint. Facilitation suggests that we either consense to let someone not a spoke speak, or close...
22:41 pm
Cont'd: …the meeting before we hear him. Stairs suggests we choose the latter option. "Let's consider the meeting over." Consensus! #nycsc
22:41 pm
@MMFlint speaks. "Thank you for clarifying that. I did not ask to speak [Stairs did]. I came here just as a citizen." #nycsc #ows
22:42 pm
Cont'd: "I didn't ask to speak; just before the meeting ended, facilitators asked. I just want to be here; I'm one of millions." #nycsc #ows
22:42 pm
Cont'd: "I come to these meetings, I come to GAs; I'm a participant, I don't just show up -- I don't have a camera with me. I'm just.."
22:43 pm
Cont'd: "…a citizen, just like you are. This man asked me to say a few words; I didn't come here for that. I hope you know that." Laughs
22:43 pm
Cont'd: "Because I think the importance of this movement is it doesn't have a spokesperson or a leader; they keep asking, I keep saying.."
22:43 pm
Cont'd: "…there's 10 million leaders, there's 10 million spokesperson. Everyone here has a story to tell. Everyone watching on livestream.."
22:43 pm
Cont'd: "…you're a spokesperson for the #Occupy movement. I've been working on these issues of Wall Street, banks, corporate america for.."
22:44 pm
Cont'd: "…2 decades, so this is not play time for me. This movement is the most important thing that's happened in our lifetime. All the.."
22:44 pm
Cont'd: "…various evils in this system: all the spokes come to a point to this one hub." "I 've been to 2 dozen occupys around the country..
22:44 pm
Cont'd: "…from Portland to Vancouver to Nevada City California, 400 ppl there, the smallest towns. That's the way it's all over the country"
22:45 pm
Cont'd: "This has spread like wildfire, and every poll shows that Americans agree with the principles of the #Occupy movement." #nycsc
22:45 pm
Cont'd: "That's AMAZING for a movement that is 15 weeks old!" Chills. A few just yelped in joy. #nycsc #ows
22:45 pm
Cont'd: "We know 15 weeks into civil rights movement, the majority of Americans didn't support it." Lists feminism, vietnam war…
22:46 pm
Cont'd: …gay rights. "It's taken years to move the mountain of the American public -- a nation of good-hearted people, but they're..."
22:46 pm
Cont'd: "…slow-learners in the basic issues of humanity. But we're doing well. In 2004, states passed hateful anti-gay laws. 3 months ago.."
22:46 pm
Cont'd: "..for the first time ever, 54% of Americans said they support gay marriage. To go from '04 to that in 6+ years- that's remarkable."
22:47 pm
Cont'd: "…but in 15 WEEKS, you've got a majority of the American people want taxes raised, ppl responsible in jail, money back -- go down..:
22:47 pm
Cont'd: "…the list -- they want their parents back! They're tired of the racism and the homophobia-- that's the America we live in!" #nycsc
22:47 pm
Cont'd: "And the hardest part of any movement is asking those who don't agree to agree with the things you stand for. We don't..."
22:48 pm
Cont'd: "..have to do that! They're already with us! I've had the privilege -- not many ppl have been able to visit 2 dozen Occupy sites."
22:48 pm
Cont'd: "And I want you to know in NYC, b/c you were the start of this, the rest of the country is really looking in at these meetings…"
22:48 pm
Cont'd: "..at the GAs, at the Spokescouncils -- people are desperate for your direction, our direction, ideas, action, action, action --"
22:49 pm
Cont'd: " -- a little bit of talk -- action. I mean, 400 people in Fayetteville Arkansas -- in Occupy Fayetteville!! They are… "#nycsc #ows
22:49 pm
Cont'd: "…they came from -- they don't consider this the Vatican, but they are counting on us here to keep doing this in 2012 and to.."
22:49 pm
cont'd: "…keep doing what's already been done, they want the next step." And many ppl ask about demands, and "I'm on the Demands WG.." LULZ!
22:49 pm
Cont'd: "…but I'm quiet there, and I go to Visions and Goals, but let me say this, especially for the younger ppl here, the process is..."
22:50 pm
Cont'd: "..every bit as important as the demands right now. And you have to know that the process is why it spread." #nycsc #ows
22:50 pm
Cont'd: "If you had done it in a traditional way, with one leader, and a spokesperson, it wouldn't have spread. But that ppl in [small...
22:50 pm
Cont'd: …towns] can say they're part of the movement, just by saying they're in it- - that's why it spread." #nycsc #ows
22:51 pm
Cont'd: "This is in its infancy. There are growing pains. That's OK -- everybody stick with it. Don't drop out! It's OK! We're a little..."
22:51 pm
Cont'd: "…baby right now!" Someone says, "We just finished our first trimester." LULZ. "Keep this process going, this egalitarian..."
22:51 pm
Cont'd: "…consensus process. Just be kind to each other, b/c we all have suffered through so much in the past decades, especially.."
22:52 pm
Cont'd: "..the last decade. The fact that we now live in a country where half of ppl are in poverty or a paycheck away from poverty.."
22:52 pm
Cont'd: "…that's a disgrace. And that's why we're a majority movement." Says the ppl who started this movement are the banks, the oil cos..
22:53 pm
Cont'd: "They put their boot on the necks of the American people a few months too long. If they'd been half as greedy, or 75% greedy, or.."
22:53 pm
Cont'd: "..let up… but no. And we said enough, and we're a part of this movement." "Let's move into 2012." Credits bk bridge, union sq...
22:53 pm
Cont'd: "The police and the mayor -- and by the way, whoever the undercover NYPD person here is tonight-- I just want to say welcome…"
22:53 pm
Cont'd: "..you are part of the 99%. My guess is they rotate you guys, because if you sat here too long, you'd start to go, "yeah!" #nycsc
22:54 pm
Cont'd: "So, welcome NYPD undercover person. But the mayor doesn't get it, wall street doesn't get it; they're so deaf to what's..."
22:54 pm
Cont'd: "…happening here. And they think it's going to fall apart in the winter." Belly laughs at that one. "If they don't understand.."
22:55 pm
Cont'd: "…human composition -- " gives many examples of struggle for greater good, including Flint sit-down strike. "The Winter -- no!"
22:55 pm
Cont'd: "What's been done to this planet is far worse than any snow or sleet. This has to keep going w/ action in the winter, and we're.."
22:55 pm
Cont'd: "..always a few steps ahead of these guys anyway." "Let's try to become part of a whole. When we walk through that door, it's.."
22:55 pm
Cont'd: "…no longer just me, myself and I. We should never lose our individuality, we want to hear every voice. But we should be part of.."
22:56 pm
Cont'd: "..a whole, and try to check the parts of us that are in need. These meetings aren't really for that. That's my personal opinion.."
22:56 pm
Cont'd: "…please don't take that to mean anyone shouldn't say anything or whatever. But ppl across the country watching..."
22:56 pm
Cont'D: "…want to know what we're doing next! They want to feel part of the whole group." #nycsc #ows
22:57 pm
@MMFlint continues to mention the MLK Day vigil at Bloomberg's house. "Honest to God, I didn't come here to be heard." #nycsc #ows
22:57 pm
Finn: "My name is Finn Jaffe, and I'd like to welcome you to #OccupyWallStreet." @MMFlint: "And I'd like to welcome you. I can't tell you.."
22:57 pm
Cont'd: "…how much you've made me feel so alive, and so good, and those 20 years were worth it." Applause. That was nice. Welcome, sir.
22:58 pm
[OK, that's it for tonight's #NYCSC! Much love; if you have questions, comments, concerns, please hit me up @diceytroop. Thx! -Ed.]
23:00 pm
@ADavaDava it wasn't on nycga; here are the shots i tweeted: pic.twitter.com/1Sk6vdjo pic.twitter.com/tfrVfclp