13:03 pm
@Conakat no, not sure, may have misheard. do you know which ones are the real threats?
19:26 pm
OK, #Spokescouncil is coming up soon! #nycsc #ows
19:55 pm
OK, we're starting. Not sure who is actually facilitating, but Sage is asking that everyone essentially respect our communal time #nycsc
19:56 pm
We're thanked for spending our time together for this movement #nycsc #ows
19:57 pm
There was no facilitating team tonight, and someone who hasn't said her name has stepped up #nycsc #ows
19:57 pm
Jennifer is w media and wants to tell ppl what she is doing. I think she is making a documentary and asking our permission... #nycsc #ows
19:57 pm
... to be filmed. #nycsc #ows
19:58 pm
Jennifer says she'll be filming for a year, maybe. #nycsc #ows
19:58 pm
Q: Is OWS going to own the footage? A: All of the footage is going to Archive. #nycsc #ows
19:58 pm
Stairs: Let's discuss the agenda. "But we haven't discussed the film" #nycsc #ows
19:59 pm
Stairs: We need to find out if ppl are comfortable being filmed. Temp check on livestream: OK! Temp check on Jennifer filming... #nycsc #ows
19:59 pm
... OK! #nycsc #ows
20:00 pm
Individual concerns: Last time, we didn't arrive at any agreement regarding ppl who might be uncomfortable being filmed #nycsc #ows
20:00 pm
How do we make it less stressful for ppl who don't want to be filmed? (Some ppl have individual reasons for note wanting... #nycsc #ows
20:01 pm
... to be filmed. #nycsc #ows
20:01 pm
(BTW, we had to move to @libertysqga2) ... to be filmed. #nycsc #ows
20:01 pm
RT @LibertySqGA2: (BTW, we had to move to @libertysqga2) ... to be filmed. #nycsc #ows
20:03 pm
Livestream: We found out that the NYPD does watch our livestream, so if you're worried about safety, there's no line... #nycsc #ows
20:03 pm
... there's no line between livestream and a documentary. #nycsc #ows
20:04 pm
Ethan: In our first #spokescouncil, we consensed that we are an open meeting and media is allowed. #nycsc #ows
20:04 pm
Concern: But some ppl don't come or participate because they are concerned about safety reasons and the filming #nycsc #ows
20:04 pm
OK, ;et's move on: Jason is stacktaker. #nycsc #ows
20:05 pm
Sage is going to help her co-facilitate. First up, 10 minute reflection on the anti-oppression training from Wednesday. #nycsc #ows
20:06 pm
2 (I mjissed that); 3- what we discussed on Monday about becoming a fully-formed functioning #SpokesCouncil #nycsc #ows
20:07 pm
Ashley says 10 minutes isn't enough to discuss the anti-oppression workshop, ppl say that the Unconference on Dec 18 will have further...
20:07 pm
... discussion about it #nycsc #ows
20:08 pm
PeoplesPuppets: Adaptation of Christmas Carol, audience participation is encouraged. 50th & Broadway and other performance....#nycsc #ows
20:08 pm
20:09 pm
If you have an action, PeoplesPuppets wants to build you a giant puppet! #nycsc #ows
20:09 pm
Powertothepuppets@gmail.com #nycsc #ows
20:10 pm
NYCGA Council: Wants to submit an agenda item: Agenda mismanagement, for the 5th time. It's always been put to the end but we've... #nycsc
20:10 pm
... never gotten to it. #nycsc #ows
20:11 pm
Jay from OccupyFarms. Um, I think he's saying that we should do reportbacks. #nycsc #ows
20:11 pm
Agenda item: regarding accounting, but they are not here, so maybe we put it at the end of the agenda list #nycsc #ows
20:12 pm
Ashley: There was a secret meeting that was improperly promoted... refers to promotion of racial justice workshop #nycsc #ows
20:12 pm
(She's not saying what the meeting was about) #nycsc #ows
20:13 pm
She says a lot of ppl are becoming control freaks. #nycsc #ows
20:13 pm
Q: What was the secret meeting about? PoP: Ppl shldn't be speaking whenever they like; and this sounds more like soapbox #nycsc #ows
20:14 pm
Stairs asks us if it's OK that we discuss the "secret" meeting. It was about building (some) values. #nycsc #ows
20:16 pm
Nan seems to be objecting to the agenda item that is a proposal that limits the appearance of any individual as Spoke within 7 days #nycsc
20:17 pm
(Stairs notes that we need to be out of here by 10pm) #nycsc #ows
20:17 pm
Agenda item: How can we get the #GA strong again? #nycsc #ows
20:21 pm
Agenda item: Mismanagement of #SpokesCouncil, are we ready to hear it? Taking temp, but... #nycsc #ows
20:23 pm
... can only #Spokes do the temp check ? Seems weird, since Trish has always said that #SpokesCouncil isn't fully formed yet #nycsc #ows
20:24 pm
OK, Trish now wants to pass over this item (table it?) #nycsc #ows
20:25 pm
Says that "we" have decided that if #SpokesCouncil doesn't want to talk about the mismanagement of money then #GA will... #nycsc #ows
20:25 pm
... bring in lawyers and a forensic accountant. (Ed: Sounds good to me!) #nycsc #ows
20:27 pm
Agenda: You can't #Spoke more than once within 7 days. Sage has a problem with that (full disclosure, there were snickers) #nycsc #ows
20:27 pm
SOmeone suggests that we should have a #Spokescouncil therapy session. That was shot down. #nycsc #ows
20:28 pm
Agenda: Debrief on Weds workshop; structures of decision-making; buldng GA; accountabilty; action planning; mismanagement of funds #nycsc
20:29 pm
(I missed a couple of those, but they will come up later, sorry) #nycsc #ows
20:30 pm
On tonight's agenda, there is no WG reportbacks. But Media has an announcement! Ppl have been targeting media for arrests... #nycsc #ows
20:30 pm
... so pls come out and help us cover everything as citizen journalists, everybody with a smartphone or camera #nycsc #ows
20:32 pm
Here's the flyer #nycsc #ows http://t.co/7xxwszRL
20:32 pm
OK! Thanks media! #nycsc #ows
20:32 pm
OK, 1st agenda item is the debrief on Weds anti-oppression training. #nycsc #ows
20:34 pm
Stairs has PoP: we have this meeting to talk and listen, please respect our time together. (Nan yells). #nycsc #ows
20:37 pm
PoI: (It's not really a PoI, it's a suggestion that we take suggestions about the how much time we want to spend on debriefing.)
20:38 pm
Q: Can we empower Lisa as a facilitator? Lots of uptwinkles! Trish: You can't do that, I've never seen that done! #nycsc #ows
20:40 pm
OK, we have spent 10 minutes on making the debrief last 15 minutes instead of the initial 10 minutes. Consensus! #nycsc #ows
20:41 pm
OK, this is the debrief of the anti-oppression training. I'm going to be paraphrasing a lot, for ppl's privacy #nycsc #ows
20:42 pm
1: I always thought I was fair and what I took away was that we as a body need to be able to discuss these things and we're not able...
20:42 pm
to do that, and I think the larger body is oppressed by a few voices here. (uptwinkles) #nycsc #ows
20:43 pm
2: One of the things I took is that maybe the structure that we have has been preformed, as opposed to reaching out to the most... #nycsc
20:44 pm
... disenfranchised groups, which is not real inclusion. #nycsc #ows
20:44 pm
We need to have a longer term gameplan to make this the inclusive body we intend it to be #nycsc #ows
20:45 pm
3: The visuals and concentric circles of the training were really powerful, and checking ourselves about who has access and privilege #nycsc
20:47 pm
Diversity means variation, not a redistribution of equality. Racial justice is equity. Just because you see variation in the faces... #nycsc
20:47 pm
... of ppl who show up, that doesn't meant that's justice. #nycsc #ows
20:48 pm
4: Weds was the beginning of a long-term process. 4 Levels: personal, interpersonal, institutional, and the organizing strategy. It all...
20:48 pm
needs to be dealt with. #nycsc #ows
20:49 pm
We have to bring what we have taken in about this to interpersonal and institution levels. #nycsc #ows
20:51 pm
5: What I learned on Weds was basically how I feel we just started, OWS has deep problems, separations... #nycsc #ows
20:51 pm
(Commenting on how the office is making their WG fill out forms) #nycsc #ows
20:52 pm
If this isn't office-ism and racism, I don't know what is. A lot of ppl ahve privilege and we forgot how it feels... #nycsc #ows
20:52 pm
when you have nothing, and that's what classicism is. Nobody's perfect, they found themselves where their at. #nycsc #ows
20:53 pm
Some ppl at OWS treat them like they're dirt... (an emotional moment) Ppl ask me, have I done something to those ppl? #nycsc #ows
20:54 pm
... b/c I thought I was part of this movement? We're sitting here making decisions on their behalf and we never ask them how they end up...
20:54 pm
... where they're at. I have 9 brothers, so I know how to deal with me. During the summer, we'll be in Germany, another summer in Ethiopia..
20:55 pm
... and when I walk around OWS I get frustrated, I grew up learning how to be poor and how to be rich, I know both sides. #nycsc #ows
20:55 pm
Until you learn how to walk in someone else's shows you can't make decisions for someone. #nycsc #ows
20:56 pm
Everyone of you has a voice. Think about it. Ask what they want. #nycsc #ows
20:57 pm
5: Since i was young I knew that things were wrong. There were huge disparaties, immeasurable oppression, and those things extend...#nycsc
20:57 pm
and I want to find the place i want to live in. I know nobody here is perfect, I want progress for the system that is very broken #nycsc
20:58 pm
We haven't started to scratch the surface yet. I am here b/c I am in a grp of ppl who have opened up and are willing to listen to...#nycsc
20:58 pm
...everybody. I don't think there is anything productive about us attacking us. When we get past this stuff, there will be other stuff...
20:59 pm
... to work through. #nycsc #ows
20:59 pm
Let's use the experience with this to get through the next experience more smoothly.#nycsc #ows
20:59 pm
I can't take the personal attacks and unsubstantiated things. #nycsc #ows
21:00 pm
Ppl have to check themselves, work on themselves to deal with the pain the world has caused us all. #nycsc #ows
21:00 pm
We have serious work to do. #nycsc #ows
21:00 pm
I'm hoping we can continue to find the things we have in common instead of all of our differences #nycsc #ows
21:01 pm
6: Halfway through the meeting someone said that ppl from diff cultures communicate in diff ways... #nycsc #ows
21:01 pm
...it made our group think about how we communicate and where we're coming from. I come from a culture where there is a strong... #nycsc
21:02 pm
...deference to authority. While I was always frustrated with break in process, I never considered it to be disproportionately unfair to...
21:02 pm
...those of us that are quiet. I'll never get used to the (yelling/disruptions). #nycsc #ows
21:03 pm
7: I really liked what you just said, it's really important to talk about and build understanding. #nycsc #ows
21:04 pm
On Weds I thought it as amazing that so many ppl showed up. I think its a good thing that we re-created things that exist in the world...
21:04 pm
... so we can fix it here. It exists and we're ready to dismantle it. #nycsc #ows
21:05 pm
We're going to be having anti-oppression workshops every weekend in January. #nycsc #ows
21:05 pm
I want to talk about classicism and the idea of meritocracy and how those are culturally accepted. #nycsc #ows
21:06 pm
8: Quotes trainer: Is talking about racism divisive? No. Racism is divisive. Talking about it is uniting and liberating. #nycsc #ows
21:07 pm
Says that the women of color are getting bullied and vilified. Refers to myth of the angry black woman. #nycsc #ows
21:08 pm
Says that many of the disruptions are coming from women of color because these issues need to be discussed. #nycsc #ows
21:08 pm
We need to understand that the 99% are not all playing on an equal playing field. #nycsc #ows
21:10 pm
Suggests reaching out to the marginalized qualities. Says there is a clique that make decisions and the majority of them are white. #nycsc
21:11 pm
She says that yesterday there was a secret meeting to try to censor women of color. That adds to mistrust. This mvmt isn't about ... #nycsc
21:11 pm
...the ppl at the secret meetings. We need to be more compassionate. #nycsc #ows
21:12 pm
9: I'm going to say what I want to say, and I hope it's not offensive. He's nervous. Says that being a white man, he can't relate to...
21:13 pm
... some of the things that are being discussed. I try, but I cannot relate. I find myself busy and find myself developing trust... #nycsc
21:13 pm
... I always silence myself because I don't feel I have anything to add b/c I can't relate.#nycsc #ows
21:14 pm
... I'm not homeless, I have never been in my life. In order to be real and understand what we're doing here, I am not capable... #nycsc
21:14 pm
... of making decisions for things I can't relate to. However, I get perturbed b/c the issue comes up so often. #nycsc #ows
21:15 pm
I see ppl who are working hard from ppl who aren't doing much. I don't see color or gender, I just see that ppl are working hard. #nycsc
21:16 pm
I desperately need for these grps who discuss these sensitive issues to raise the bar, and to know that I won't be adding my... #nycsc #ows
21:16 pm
... voice the conversatin. #nycsc #ows
21:17 pm
10: I thought the lecture was academic and dry, I think ppl were looking for catharsis. I just want to say I have had a wealth... #nycsc
21:17 pm
... experience living in rural communities and living in urban areas and then in rich areas. I have some privileges and I don't have other.s
21:19 pm
To my brothers and sisters, we are the vanguard in this dialog. I am a bit saddened at how we operate here. Please let us be real with...
21:19 pm
... each other. Let's not let our experiences change the dialog to something this is not about. Let's be midnful that there are a lot of...
21:19 pm
...things that need to be done. #nycsc #ows
21:23 pm
Stairs: Let's not make community agreements that we're not comfortable helping ppl to stick to. #nycsc #ows
21:26 pm
Stairs: We need to make a difficult decision. Can we jump from what we were just talking about to accountability? #nycsc #ows
21:29 pm
Someone said we're at an impasse... but I'm not sure how we got there. #nycsc #ows
21:31 pm
PoC has a statement to make: Wld like to suggest that we frame this conversation about accountability as temporary measures. #nycsc #ows
21:32 pm
And then moving to next steps incorporating the ppl who are not here #nycsc #ows
21:34 pm
Stairs: So everyone (except Nan) wants to have a conversation about accountability. #nycsc #ows http://t.co/YqXfzGol
21:35 pm
Pretty sure the accountability issue is related to limiting the appearance of any individual as #Spoke to 1 time per 7 days. Nan is against.
21:36 pm
Proposed text: "Upon assuming the role, for any length of time, even momentarily, of #Spoke for any group, caucus, subgroup... #nycsc #ows
21:37 pm
"... or similar collective, regardless of the membership status of any subgroup, no person may again serve as a #spoke... #nycsc #ows
21:37 pm
"... before the passage of seven days' time." #nycsc #ows
21:39 pm
Lisa: some of us engage in a lot of nonverbal communication, we need to be mindful. If yr getting triggered, take a breath... #nycsc #ows
21:39 pm
Also, I've been hearing a lot of accusations, let's be careful about that. #nycsc #ows
21:41 pm
Ravi: As a really loud person I was really touched about the person who said that he was quiet. Ppl who are opinionated & loud... #nycsc
21:41 pm
... And I am one of them, it helps to be aware and feel free to send me signals if I'm talking too much, and my friend is poking me now...
21:41 pm
... so I'll sit down." #nycsc #ows
21:42 pm
OwsEnEspanol: Ppl who do not believe that #SpokesCouncil shld exist and do everything they can to disrupt it shouldn't be here. #nycsc #ows
21:42 pm
Why are we spending so much time here is it's just getting disrupted? Unless we talk about the elephant in the room... #nycsc #ows
21:43 pm
... and how ppl who come here just to disrupt, and there's a lot of other ppl here who won't come because it is continually disrupted...
21:43 pm
If we don't talk about enforcement, then we're just fucking around. #nycsc #ows
21:45 pm
Zach: I came here because I wanted to protest the financial situation. All of the other conversations have broadened my perspective....
21:46 pm
.. But I think it's reasonable that we discuss what the group want s to discuss.... I thought that we had a respectful convo re race...
21:46 pm
... we should be able to talk about accountability. #nycsc #ows
21:47 pm
Comment: When I come here, I am tired of the same ppl disrupting over and over and they say they represent the same ppl but I haven't...
21:47 pm
... heard any of those other ppl come with the same view. I don't understand why that keeps happening. #nycsc #ows
21:48 pm
Sage: I am cofacilitating b/c I hold Facilitation accountable for their job #ows #nycsc
21:49 pm
Con'd: And I feel like there are some things upper middle class people in this room don't understand about experiences.
21:50 pm
Cont'd: But I feel like it's more cultural, too. And people asked why I don't feel comfortable to join in the conversation. #ows #nycsc
21:51 pm
Cont'd: I feel like if you're not committed to all this, there's no reason for me to open up that way. #ows #nycsc
21:51 pm
Daniel: I think the Spokes can't handle some of the energies that come up in it. #ows #nycsc
21:52 pm
Con't: But I feel it's a waste of our time if we are here and are not making decisions. #ows #nycsc
21:52 pm
Cont'd: I don't feel safe in this space a lot of the time. #ows #nycsc
21:52 pm
Stairs: I think we need to stop and talk about why some people might not feel safe. #ows #nycsc
21:53 pm
Sage: I think your aggression is really connected to your work. ... And I don't feel safe b/c I know you don't want me here. #ows #nycsc
21:54 pm
We ask you on Dec 17th to assemble once more. 12pm Sat Dec 17 Varick & Canal. #nycsc #ows http://t.co/WvZM4lbF
21:55 pm
Nan says she doesn't feel safe because facilitation is leading us in a way that makes me uncomfortable. #nycsc #ows
21:58 pm
Comment: There are various kinds of oppression, due to race, class, gender, etc., then also the oppression that is bullying. #nycsc #ows
21:59 pm
We are all deeply invested in this, but I have never felt more oppressed in my life, b/c of assumptions about me here an in the mvmnt #ows
22:00 pm
As much as I love this mvmnt, and I've spent a lot of time reaching out to ppl, I've gone out of my way to get ppl to attend... #nycsc #ows
22:01 pm
... but it's useless. THe oppression comes from taking advantage of an open mvmnt #nycsc #ows
22:02 pm
Ppl uptwinkle this but they don't even realize that it's directed at them (Nan was uptwinkling, so was Trish) (applause & laughter) #nycsc
22:03 pm
Ethan: In response to something some said earlier, about race I think we lack the ability as a group to call out oppression when it happens.
22:03 pm
When it happens and it is not addressed, then it becomes normalized. #nycsc #ows
22:04 pm
I grew up with certain privileges and it didn't let me see the oppression around me. When I say racism isn't something that affects me...
22:04 pm
... that is how racism works! #nycsc #ows
22:05 pm
We have to be patient with each other to break down these issues and these barriers. #nycsc #ows
22:05 pm
We have to space out these conversations to keep work on this. #nycsc #ows
22:06 pm
Comment: This is such a large conversation and I don't even know where to begin. #nycsc #ows
22:07 pm
We need an operational #SpokesCouncil, desperately. Me and other members of WGs have left and haven't come back b/c this is not functioning.
22:07 pm
I am concerned that all of the underlying tensions seem to come back to racism or classicism. I don't come from a heterogenous community.
22:08 pm
I'm concerned that ppl are saying things are racist when it's just a difference in races. I don not beleieve that the ppl here have...
22:08 pm
... have come to practice overt racism against other ppl here. Sometimes ppl just do things differently. #nycsc #ows
22:09 pm
(Oh noes, he just brought up a cpl gnarly race tropes and ppl.... whoo. No yelling, but... not good ) #nycsc #ows
22:10 pm
If our process is broke, we need to find the medium and make it work. I dont't mind taking the time to do it, but let's be realistic...
22:10 pm
...it won't be a perfect system. #nycsc #ows
22:11 pm
We need to be respectful of the ppl who have let us use this space, this is their spiritual space, let's use respectful language. #nycsc
22:12 pm
Ashley: there was a meeting yesterday about removing ppl who don't conform to the process. That's a secret meeting. #nycsc #ows
22:13 pm
We're having ppl try to belittle the issues of racism and classicism and I feel bullied. #nycsc #ows
22:13 pm
Stairs, we need to keep time. #nycsc #ows
22:15 pm
This #SpokesCouncil is here to alleviate secrecy. But we need to get things done. We need something that functions. Right now... #nycsc
22:15 pm
... if we need to get something done, we call up other ppl and get it done. We want to be more transparent, but this grp doesn't function.
22:17 pm
Comment: This didn't go how I thought it would go, I was hoping something temporary wld happen, but what I'm hearing is there are... #nycsc
22:17 pm
... 2 grps of ppl. 1 feels oppressed but they are coming from a place of privilege where oppression wldn't historically apply to them.
22:18 pm
... We shld define oppression and forms of abuse. There shld be something in place to address that. We've been conditioned to... #nycsc #ows
22:19 pm
recognize certain behaviors as being able to be vilified. #nycsc #ows
22:20 pm
Lets recognize things that are not easily visible, microagression, things that do not manifest easily to the naked eye. #nycsc #ows
22:21 pm
Jason: I have a lot of patience, I've been microabused and macroabused by some ppl here. When I walk down the street... #nycsc #ows
22:22 pm
... I see ppl so sick they wld never make it in this room. That goes on many levels. Ppl here are digging at the truth. #nycsc #ows
22:22 pm
What do we need to do to go forward as a group. One of the things we are going to see if ppl coming in here and who can't function...
22:23 pm
...at this level, because of the serious asswhooping that life has given them. They have been so traumatized that they cannot function...
22:24 pm
... in this type of environment. They need to check themselves to see if they can function in this space without constantly disrupting it.
22:25 pm
If they can't function here yet, they need to get help and come back. There are many strong ppl here, but there is a small grp... #nycsc
22:26 pm
... that cannot operate in this group. #nycsc #ows
22:26 pm
It's getting to how it negates common sense. This is ridiculous. #nycsc #ows
22:28 pm
OK, we were almost done, and then w three minutes left, Trish is yelling about being accused of being a cop. And.. thats... #nycsc #ows
22:28 pm
pretty much it... our time is over! Another #spokescouncil! #nycsc #ows (Trish is still yelling)